Question for M25 HATOs

[Towie]

Why do you tolerate the east europeans taking their breaks on the hard shoulder when there is a traffic jam?

The Surrey stretch looks like a lorry park some evenings.

[Hooli]

good question ive often wondered how they get away with it.

[andyuk911]

Can you also ask the HATOs to keep the Christmas tree lights to a minimum ...

[Towie]

You mean those stupid red rears which are so bright that they blind you? Couldn`t agree more.

[duff]

The problem with that stretch of the M25 is the lack of services to take a break in, I think it's about 75 miles between them!

[Hooli]

duff said:

The problem with that stretch of the M25 is the lack of services to take a break in, I think it's about 75 miles between them!

thats a problem with their journey planning then. last time i read the tacho rules it said something like poor planning is not a valid reason to exceed hours. so they cant continue but they cant stop there, they need to learn to do their job. if the british truckers can manage it they should be able too.
ticket the lot for whatever the offense is. oh & have a list of plates at dover etc so next time over they pay up or arent allowed on our roads.

[Towie]

Hooli said:

duff said:

The problem with that stretch of the M25 is the lack of services to take a break in, I think it's about 75 miles between them!

thats a problem with their journey planning then. last time i read the tacho rules it said something like poor planning is not a valid reason to exceed hours. so they cant continue but they cant stop there, they need to learn to do their job. if the british truckers can manage it they should be able too.
ticket the lot for whatever the offense is. oh & have a list of plates at dover etc so next time over they pay up or arent allowed on our roads.

Nail. Head.

[Vaux]

Hooli said:

thats a problem with their journey planning then. last time i read the tacho rules it said something like poor planning is not a valid reason to exceed hours. so they cant continue but they cant stop there, they need to learn to do their job. if the british truckers can manage it they should be able too.

So they should plan for a major hold up in traffic?
HATOs have no legal power to move an LGV on. What happens if the driver had an accident and he was over his hours? "Well, the day glow womble told me I had to drive........."

Hooli said:

ticket the lot for whatever the offense is. oh & have a list of plates at dover etc so next time over they pay up or arent allowed on our roads.

Right.....that'll be the Police then for that.

[TPS]

Vaux said:

So they should plan for a major hold up in traffic?

No they should not.They are allowed to note on the back of tachos the reasons why they drove over a rest hour if they were delayed due to an incident.This means they could be stuck in traffic and leave at the next junction.At least thats how i was told it worked.

Edited by TPS on Saturday 1st December 18:25

[Towie]

Vaux said:

HATOs have no legal power to move an LGV on. Right.....that'll be the Police then for that.

I know it`s not your patch, so don`t take this personally, but that is complete bollox.

If a broken down car is such a hazard that you lot have to sit behind it with your ridiculously powerful lights going, why the hell have I NEVER seen one behind a parked HGV?

Double bloody standards. It`s precisely your lack of powers that encourages the problem. Bring back more plod!

[Towie]

TPS said:

Vaux said:

So they should plan for a major hold up in traffic?

No they should not.They are allowed to note on the back of tachos the reasons why they drove over a rest hour if they were delayed due to an incident.This means they could be stuck in traffic and leave at the next junction.At least thats how i was told it worked.

Edited by TPS on Saturday 1st December 18:25

1. Yes they should allow for a hold up in traffic. They see the signs giving mileages to the nearest services. They know the distance they can travel in the time allocated. They should never be forced to stop two miles past a junction and 15 miles short of the services, (Unless the traffic is COMPLETELY stopped of course.

2. They are allowed to move to a place of safety.

[Hooli]

Vaux said:

Hooli said:

thats a problem with their journey planning then. last time i read the tacho rules it said something like poor planning is not a valid reason to exceed hours. so they cant continue but they cant stop there, they need to learn to do their job. if the british truckers can manage it they should be able too.

So they should plan for a major hold up in traffic?

no, traffic holdups, sudden bad weather etc is a valid reason for going over your hours. its not hard to read a map & say on the next services are there. i'll stop after 4 1/4 hours rather than drive 15mins past them & stop on the hard shoulder.

yes you'd need plod to ticket/send them on. but arent the wombles in radio contact with a control room that could pass it on to plod?

[Towie]

Hooli said:

no, traffic holdups, is a valid reason for going over your hours.

Not if the matrix signs are warning of congestion. It would not be an "unforseeable delay".

I`m just waiting for some poor sod to plough into the back of one of these. Given that HATOs make regular patrols and that the whole of that section is under camera, it would be very hard for the HA to wiggle out of being culpable.

[Vaux]

Towie said:

Vaux said:

HATOs have no legal power to move an LGV on. Right.....that'll be the Police then for that.

I know it`s not your patch, so don`t take this personally, but that is complete bollox.

Maybe the laws are different in your part of the country, but we can only advise people to move on for their safety. If a trucker says "bugger off...." then we'll say the next people along will be plod........and if a trucker wants his tacho initialled we can't.

Towie said:

If a broken down car is such a hazard that you lot have to sit behind it with your ridiculously powerful lights going, why the hell have I NEVER seen one behind a parked HGV?

Because we sit behind vulnerable people/loads. Like little old folk who can't get out of their cars, or petrol tankers. 44T of toilet roll doesn't count!
What's your issue with the lights? They're standard light bars. At night there is a low power setting which some HATOs might forget about (some think more light is safer; some say it has a "moth to the light" effect).

Towie said:

Bring back more plod!

Hear hear, that's what we say too. Coppers and Hatos - perfect!

[Hooli]

Towie said:

Hooli said:

no, traffic holdups, is a valid reason for going over your hours.

Not if the matrix signs are warning of congestion. It would not be an "unforseeable delay".

I`m just waiting for some poor sod to plough into the back of one of these. Given that HATOs make regular patrols and that the whole of that section is under camera, it would be very hard for the HA to wiggle out of being culpable.

yes good point, didnt think of that as it been a while since i 'suffered' tachos.

[Vaux]

Hooli said:

yes you'd need plod to ticket/send them on. but arent the wombles in radio contact with a control room that could pass it on to plod?

I don't know how bad it is darn sarf, but further north I will note if they're parked up on a slip road (safely) etc. and if they're still there next time past will have a word. I don't know the tacho rules (don't need to), but I thought the idea was to take a 15 minute break then they can run for 4 or 4.5 hours straight? I do ask why they couldn't wait the other side of the motorway sign, but a nice hard shoulder seems attractive I suppose.

I'd rather have the Police doing more important work than being called out to an LGV that probably won't be there by the time they get there......

[Hooli]

unless the laws have changed since i last did tachos. its 4.5hours then a 45min min break.

[Vaux]

Towie said:

I`m just waiting for some poor sod to plough into the back of one of these. Given that HATOs make regular patrols and that the whole of that section is under camera, it would be very hard for the HA to wiggle out of being culpable.

Are you saying they're parked up on the hard shoulder of the main carriageway, not a slip road? We always stop and ask what's going on - usually they're "checking a strap" or they "heard a funny noise" or they're having a piss, and then they're off.
Cameras are not as plentiful as you might think (I don't know on M25); some don't work; most are fixed on junctions/known "hot spots", and then you need staff to watch them. HATOs try and patrol but they can be stuck on a job for all shift, like a carriageway or slip road closure. You'd have a job trying to blame the HA, but I'm sure in today's Britain, someone would try.......

Nice to see you wanting more HATO presence/responsibility though Towie!

[Hooli]

yeah i think Towie means the main carriageway. you can see queues of them parked up for miles. oddly they all seem to move at just the right time to get to dartford for the cheaper nighttime fees in my experience.

Edited by Hooli on Saturday 1st December 20:11

[Vaux]

Hooli said:

yeah he means the main carriageway. you can see queues of them parked up for miles. oddly they all seem to move at just the right time to get to dartford for the cheaper nighttime fees in my experience.

Sounds like the Police know the score and condone it?
The other point could be, where do you think A HATO is going to move them on to if they're waiting to get to a ferry?
Doesn't make it right though.