Was there really any need to do that?.

[Slowly slowly]

That comment is aimed at the police driver of a marked up Vectra that left the M6 south bound junction 22 at 02.11 this morning (6/12/07). I was driving the second truck in a line of 3 we where all doing 89kph, I could manage 90kph but seeing as I wanted to leave at J21A which is only one and a half miles past J22 I decided to sit behind truck one.
Then with 50 yards to go before the slip road(for the lead truck) a police Vectra travelling that fast I had no chance of getting the number flashed past me slightly moving from lane 3 to lane 2, to his credit he was probably in lane 3 just incase one of us move out to overtake, then I lost sight of him because of the truck in front of me, the lead trucks brake lights came on but I had already lifted off I had no other option but to brake, maybe the guy behind me had a better view of what was happening.
I moved slightly to my left to look up the inside of the truck (he only lost about 5 mph) to see the police Vectra steaming up the slip road, no left indicator to say he was leaving and no right indicator at the top of the slip road to say he was turning right, which he did and no blue lights.

Was there really any need to do that?.

If you had slotted in behind the 3rd truck you would have been 250 yards further back, If you had miss judge that little manouver slightly we could have had a very messy rush hour this morning.
The jobs difficult enough watching out for drunks and stolen cars without having to keep an eye out for plod playing silly buggers.

[Retard]

Sounds like a wee misjudgement to me, easy to do.

[Chrispy Porker]

Was there anyone behind him or on the roundabout?
if not, what is the point of indicating?
I was taught not to indicate if there is clearly no-one to see it!

[oldsoak]

Slowly slowly said:

............police Vectra steaming up the slip road, no left indicator to say he was leaving ............

Chrispy he forgot to say 'may I' when he left the motorway as well

[Double Play]

Chrispy Porker said:

I was taught not to indicate if there is clearly no-one to see it!

I'd disagree with that from a personal point of view. If you indicate all the time, it becomes a habit that you don't break. More importantly, it gives others whom you don't see some clue about your intentions.

[TripleS]

Chrispy Porker said:

Was there anyone behind him or on the roundabout?
if not, what is the point of indicating?
I was taught not to indicate if there is clearly no-one to see it!

Ah, a member of the new school.

TBH I'm still struggling a bit with some of these newfangled ideas.

Yes I know, it does have some merit, but I still feel there are arguments both sides.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[ATG]

Chrispy Porker said:

Was there anyone behind him or on the roundabout?
if not, what is the point of indicating?
I was taught not to indicate if there is clearly no-one to see it!

He didn't indicate to leave the motorway when he was cutting up the trucks.

[10 Pence Short]

I've only ever indicated if there's a party who needs the information in my vicinity.

For example, if you're in lane 2 and have just overtaken a car in lane 1 with a reasonable speed differential and safe gaps, do you really need to indicate to say your returning to lane 1 yourself?

[Chrispy Porker]

I was wondering about the entry to the roundabout and travel around it.
As I say if there is no-one there I would not bother to indicate.

[Slowly slowly]

I estimated his speed at 90 mph when I first saw him at the side of me, I have no idea what speed he was doing before he reached me as there is a left curve before J22, his speed was not an issue with me.
He moved from lane 3 to the slip road (3 moves in one IMO)without indicating, me and the other 2 truckers would have like to know that he was intending to leave the motorway and not in a spin.
He caused the lead trucker to slightly apply his brakes so he obviously was concerned probably due to the fact that it looked more unusual to him because he had a ringside seat.
He went up the slip road in the outside lane and yes there were 2 vehicles going round the island causing the police car to slow to about 10mph without any indication,
I suppose my point is if the policeman had witness a MOP driving like that even at 70mph he would and should have had him for DWDCAA, everything about the manouver was wrong even if he had been attending to an emergency, christ he nearly caused one.

[Big Rod]

Double Play said:

Chrispy Porker said:

I was taught not to indicate if there is clearly no-one to see it!

I'd disagree with that from a personal point of view. If you indicate all the time, it becomes a habit that you don't break. More importantly, it gives others whom you don't see some clue about your intentions.

Driving, absolutely positively must not become habitual. If any part of it does then you're on to the slippery slope on middle lane ownerdom.

The exercise of not making redundant signals is to a) reduce wear on the vehicles componentry when it's not required and b) to ensure the driver is effing well paying attention to his surroundings. I've gotten to the point where I'd feel quite embarrased if I made a signal and there's no-one around.

[SplatSpeed]

Chrispy Porker said:

Was there anyone behind him or on the roundabout?
if not, what is the point of indicating?
I was taught not to indicate if there is clearly no-one to see it!

apparently it cuts down on pollution

[Uncle Wonko]

Picture the scene. Those old three track roads - the ones with single carriageways and an overtaking lane in the middle (both ways of course!)

Following somebody going slow when there were just single carriageways and when the road opened up fella in front signalled to overtake, which he did with your truly following.

After about 200 yards he braked hard to a standstill in the middle lane to turn right into a farm gate....One signal fits all whether you accelerate or brake or all together.

Only ever experienced this once in 40 plus years of motoring and I have never seen anybody else use that gate.

Did I bib my horn or not...

[ATG]

10 Pence Short said:

I've only ever indicated if there's a party who needs the information in my vicinity.

For example, if you're in lane 2 and have just overtaken a car in lane 1 with a reasonable speed differential and safe gaps, do you really need to indicate to say your returning to lane 1 yourself?

Personally, I'd always indicate inthat siutation.

If you indicate the cars behind will anticipate you moving lane. Of course that knowledge isn't going to lead them to actually do anything, as you've left a gap etc ... but it will remove any element of surprise.

It seems to me one of the key objectives when driving is to never do anything unexpected and to do anything you reasonably can to minimise surprising and therefore distracting other drivers.

In the situation you describe the element of suprise caused by failing to indicate is tiny, but it's there nonetheless. In the interests of making my driving as predicatable as possible to other motorists, I'd indicate in that situation.

[Gerry Breen]

Double Play said:

Chrispy Porker said:

I was taught not to indicate if there is clearly no-one to see it!

I'd disagree with that from a personal point of view. If you indicate all the time, it becomes a habit that you don't break. More importantly, it gives others whom you don't see some clue about your intentions.

I was taught to always indicate as who can say that they are always completely aware of every other road user in their vicinity

[10 Pence Short]

If I'm 50 yards ahead and leaving him behind, it's just additional distraction on both our parts which is unnecessary, in my opinion.

[fat tony]

Not a good move by bib. Please don't take this the wrong way, but why would there have been an accident? I'm sure you had your correct braking distance? Not trying to start an argument, just curious of the situation.

[Uncle Wonko]

Sorry to miss out - he never cancelled the signal in the whole time it took to negotiate the two linked manoeuvres.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

[ATG]

Big Rod said:

Double Play said:

Chrispy Porker said:

I was taught not to indicate if there is clearly no-one to see it!

I'd disagree with that from a personal point of view. If you indicate all the time, it becomes a habit that you don't break. More importantly, it gives others whom you don't see some clue about your intentions.

Driving, absolutely positively must not become habitual. If any part of it does then you're on to the slippery slope on middle lane ownerdom.

The exercise of not making redundant signals is to a) reduce wear on the vehicles componentry when it's not required and b) to ensure the driver is effing well paying attention to his surroundings. I've gotten to the point where I'd feel quite embarrased if I made a signal and there's no-one around.

While there is considerable sense in that approach, one needs to keep in mind the asymetric risk when choosing to indicate or not to indicate. From the point of view of trying not to drive like a robot in lane 2, the key thing here is that the driver is thinking and making a conscious choice. The thing is, making the choice to not indicate in most situations carries greater risk than choosing to indicate. There is always the risk that you've failed to notice someone who might benefit from your signal. If one had to make a choice between signalling too much and signalling too little, clearly signalling too much is preferable. Thus I'd say the ideal is that we assess every situation where an indication might possibly be useful ... and then very, very nearly always decide to go ahead and indicate.

[ATG]

10 Pence Short said:

If I'm 50 yards ahead and leaving him behind, it's just additional distraction on both our parts which is unnecessary, in my opinion.

What is more distracting? Seeing a car move across your field of vision without warning, or seeing an indicator flashing to tell you that's coming?

Put it this way, when I'm the driver being overtaken on a dual carriageway I appreciate a quick signal from the overtaking driver prior to them changing lanes and moving in front of me.

Edited by ATG on Thursday 6th December 15:18