Procurator fiscal Summons
Discussion
To paraphrase the important part:
"A702....,Midlothian being a length of single carriageway road, you <ME> did drive a motor vehicle car registered number <REG> at a speed exceeding 60 miles per hour, namely 95 miles per hour. Contrary to the 70/60/50 order 1977 paragraph 3(b), the 70/60/50 order 1978 and the road traffic regulation act 1984 sections 88 and 89."
"Weather conditions - dry with good visibilty"
"Traffic conditions - moderate traffic flow"
There is no reference anywhere in the documentation to dangerous driving.
A full disqualification with test retake would see me unemployed. However a temporary ban can be delt with.
I obviously have no court experience so.
Should I attend on my own apologising stating my genuine remorse (yes really)?
Or should I attend with a solicitor?
Ask a solictor to represent me as it clashes with a long standing out patients appointment?
Complete the paper work and deal with my fate by post?
I don't have great funds for a Solicitor and I only want professional mitigation, not trying to wriggle out. I will almost certainly make initial contact with a solicitor in the morning anyway.
"A702....,Midlothian being a length of single carriageway road, you <ME> did drive a motor vehicle car registered number <REG> at a speed exceeding 60 miles per hour, namely 95 miles per hour. Contrary to the 70/60/50 order 1977 paragraph 3(b), the 70/60/50 order 1978 and the road traffic regulation act 1984 sections 88 and 89."
"Weather conditions - dry with good visibilty"
"Traffic conditions - moderate traffic flow"
There is no reference anywhere in the documentation to dangerous driving.
A full disqualification with test retake would see me unemployed. However a temporary ban can be delt with.
I obviously have no court experience so.
Should I attend on my own apologising stating my genuine remorse (yes really)?
Or should I attend with a solicitor?
Ask a solictor to represent me as it clashes with a long standing out patients appointment?
Complete the paper work and deal with my fate by post?
I don't have great funds for a Solicitor and I only want professional mitigation, not trying to wriggle out. I will almost certainly make initial contact with a solicitor in the morning anyway.
You have only been charged with exceeding the speed limit. That which you are alleged (and not contested in your post) is beyond the remit for a Conditional offer and therefore a Court appearence where the Magistrates (or Scottish equivilant)can have a look at you with the possibility of a fine and ban.
Presume from your post it will be Guilty?
At 31 yrs of age and with some nouse (IT at Uni)you should be articulate enough to present mitigation that is best done in person, smatly dressed but not OTT. In fact they provide two items of mitigation in the summons - dry road, moderate traffic. Add to this sack cloth and ashes, stupid thing to do, good car, didn't realise etc etc (not normal behaviour if you have no previous points.) Mags may be lenient - fine and points, no ban.
If a ban in their minds then provide proof how this could affect you - loss of job, home. marriage etc (hardship)and again they can dispense with a ban.
Cost to you - your time only.
Update later how you got on and approached the problem.
dvd
Presume from your post it will be Guilty?
At 31 yrs of age and with some nouse (IT at Uni)you should be articulate enough to present mitigation that is best done in person, smatly dressed but not OTT. In fact they provide two items of mitigation in the summons - dry road, moderate traffic. Add to this sack cloth and ashes, stupid thing to do, good car, didn't realise etc etc (not normal behaviour if you have no previous points.) Mags may be lenient - fine and points, no ban.
If a ban in their minds then provide proof how this could affect you - loss of job, home. marriage etc (hardship)and again they can dispense with a ban.
Cost to you - your time only.
Update later how you got on and approached the problem.
dvd
Cheers DVD.
Got to say guilty, no way I say otherwise and expect anything other than the full wrath of the PF.
As I've investigated in a previous thread a ban and a disqualification/retest are not the same. But I guess I must discuss further with my manager about providing a written statement. Being on call 24/7 one week a month with 3 other guys a ban(tba suspension of driving privileges)can be dealt with but a full disqualification would affect the rest of the team and my position.
Would they honestly dismiss me? I do not actually believe so in reflection but not being able to perform my duties may affect my position.
Am I articulate? In an enviroment of confidence I do fine. First ever visit to a court, to be blunt in a Scottish way, I'm shitting it! I would intend to attend with short written notes.
I've read RTA 1985 sections 88 & 89 so I know I'm in trouble. Just wish this law stuff was in pure plain english.
Got to say guilty, no way I say otherwise and expect anything other than the full wrath of the PF.
As I've investigated in a previous thread a ban and a disqualification/retest are not the same. But I guess I must discuss further with my manager about providing a written statement. Being on call 24/7 one week a month with 3 other guys a ban(tba suspension of driving privileges)can be dealt with but a full disqualification would affect the rest of the team and my position.
Would they honestly dismiss me? I do not actually believe so in reflection but not being able to perform my duties may affect my position.
Am I articulate? In an enviroment of confidence I do fine. First ever visit to a court, to be blunt in a Scottish way, I'm shitting it! I would intend to attend with short written notes.
I've read RTA 1985 sections 88 & 89 so I know I'm in trouble. Just wish this law stuff was in pure plain english.
You may find it therefore advantageous if you can spare the time to pop into your local Court beforehand and get the feel of how they operate by following a couple of cases through. Court Ushers are generally helpful. You will note that all is conducted by the Clerk of the Court (no baton)who keeps everyone right even the Mags.
If you do then query, while there, if possible to have a word with Duty Court Solicitor, to see if he could help in any advocacy.
dvd
If you do then query, while there, if possible to have a word with Duty Court Solicitor, to see if he could help in any advocacy.
dvd
Tis good advice, to reduce the 'shitting it' factor, court is only really scary the first time from my point of view having given evidence a couple of times a few years back, although it is a different ball game.
The statement from the employer is known to help, it won't reduce the penalty in terms of 'you will definately know what hit you', they may just hit you in a different way (ie: the pocket). A friend of mine was caught doing 103mph on the M5, he got a 7 day ban (no re-test, and yes i did mean 7 days). The only issue was that he had one hell of a fine and a sort of probation period for 4 years, in which he's not allowed to get himself any more SP** offences.
It was the same for him, it was his first offence, first set of points, first court appearance and he was bricking it too. The policy he adopted was honesty, remorse and need for a licence, which worked to the extent of him being able to continue his job.
The statement from the employer is known to help, it won't reduce the penalty in terms of 'you will definately know what hit you', they may just hit you in a different way (ie: the pocket). A friend of mine was caught doing 103mph on the M5, he got a 7 day ban (no re-test, and yes i did mean 7 days). The only issue was that he had one hell of a fine and a sort of probation period for 4 years, in which he's not allowed to get himself any more SP** offences.
It was the same for him, it was his first offence, first set of points, first court appearance and he was bricking it too. The policy he adopted was honesty, remorse and need for a licence, which worked to the extent of him being able to continue his job.
Ok, the result.......
For Size Nine - Headed south it was the first straight before Silverburn.
Cheers again to DVD and others re. the various advice.
What I didn't add was I had an SP30 in September due to a sneaky talivan.
So I type my notes, stuck a shirt and tie, and armed with a written statement from my boss (Licence for work) I represented myself.
In other defendents, the usher, the Solicitor types sitting in the middle, and even the Sheriff I sensed different degrees of a funny look when I stated that I was representing myself. Not a common thing I think.
1. Pleaded guilty and offered my sincere appologies for the offence..... completely unacceptable behavior....regret not making that statement to the Constables at the time.
2. The first thing the Sheriff does is take my licence and highlight the Sept offence. My defence for that was "To put that incident into its full context I
was taking the first safe opportunity to quickly and efficiently (TED-Time Exposed to Danger) overtake a slow moving caravan. I did and always would have, regardless of the camera van return to 60mph in a progressive manor after completing the pass. I fully believe that any abortion of the move due to then seeing the obscured camera van would've been a danger to other road users. This does not excuse the offence but I pleaded guilty and accepted the punishment and as such would like to consider that offence closed and separate from why I am here today. It could be argued to paint a picture of a persistent offender but again I plead with you that this is not the case.
3. I offer the Sheriff the boss statement or for me to verbally summarise it. Without it I believe I was doomed.
In the end 5 points and £160 fine.
I do not believe a chunky Solicitor fee would've made much difference to that result.
I continue to drive like Hoek (Driving Miss Daisy character).
For Size Nine - Headed south it was the first straight before Silverburn.
Cheers again to DVD and others re. the various advice.
What I didn't add was I had an SP30 in September due to a sneaky talivan.
So I type my notes, stuck a shirt and tie, and armed with a written statement from my boss (Licence for work) I represented myself.
In other defendents, the usher, the Solicitor types sitting in the middle, and even the Sheriff I sensed different degrees of a funny look when I stated that I was representing myself. Not a common thing I think.
1. Pleaded guilty and offered my sincere appologies for the offence..... completely unacceptable behavior....regret not making that statement to the Constables at the time.
2. The first thing the Sheriff does is take my licence and highlight the Sept offence. My defence for that was "To put that incident into its full context I
was taking the first safe opportunity to quickly and efficiently (TED-Time Exposed to Danger) overtake a slow moving caravan. I did and always would have, regardless of the camera van return to 60mph in a progressive manor after completing the pass. I fully believe that any abortion of the move due to then seeing the obscured camera van would've been a danger to other road users. This does not excuse the offence but I pleaded guilty and accepted the punishment and as such would like to consider that offence closed and separate from why I am here today. It could be argued to paint a picture of a persistent offender but again I plead with you that this is not the case.
3. I offer the Sheriff the boss statement or for me to verbally summarise it. Without it I believe I was doomed.
In the end 5 points and £160 fine.
I do not believe a chunky Solicitor fee would've made much difference to that result.
I continue to drive like Hoek (Driving Miss Daisy character).
Somehow I think you will not compalin at that result?
They were magnanimous in awarding 5 points, 6 and the next time for the chop with the previous. As it is one more without the chop?
In uncomplicated cases you prove that with a bit of effort you can represent oneself, saving £150 -200 Legal fees. However in deference to the er - Mafia-- Solicitors they are useful if very complicated.
dvd
They were magnanimous in awarding 5 points, 6 and the next time for the chop with the previous. As it is one more without the chop?
In uncomplicated cases you prove that with a bit of effort you can represent oneself, saving £150 -200 Legal fees. However in deference to the er - Mafia-- Solicitors they are useful if very complicated.
dvd
No complaints here DVD and yes a 4 point gap.
A guy I got talking to had a solictor to represent going through a red light. I said I guess that must be due care and he agreed. He was advised by a relative to be represented. But I didn't go into further details of whether third parties were involved.
On reflection if I had the time I would like to have hung around to see how he got on and how the Pros handle defence of these types of things.
Maybe with experience the legs stop trembling.
A guy I got talking to had a solictor to represent going through a red light. I said I guess that must be due care and he agreed. He was advised by a relative to be represented. But I didn't go into further details of whether third parties were involved.
On reflection if I had the time I would like to have hung around to see how he got on and how the Pros handle defence of these types of things.
Maybe with experience the legs stop trembling.
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