OT: recording conversations

[BertBert]

I am having an itsy bitsy dispute with a bathroom fitting shop and the proprieter has just let slip that he has recorded all of our phone conversations. I'm not particularly worried about it as it will support my side of the argument (being we can't agree what has been agreed).

But are there any legalities about recording conversations bearing in mind that he is the retailer/supplier and I am (a simple!) MOP?

bert

[streaky]

The interception, recording and monitoring of telephone calls is governed by a number of different pieces of UK legislation. The requirements of all relevant legislation must be complied with. The main ones are:

• Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 ("RIPA&quot
• Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice)(Interception of Communications) Regulations 2000 ("LBP Regulations&quot
• Data Protection Act 1998
• Telecommunications (Data Protection and Privacy) Regulations 1999
• Human Rights Act 1998

If he has covertly recorded your telephone conversations, there's a good chance he is in breach of the one or more of the above listed laws and regulations.

Streaky

[selwonk]

Get your own back:

http://www.RecTel.co.uk

[Jasandjules]

Ooh, in that case you can go for a S7 Subject Access Request....

[BertBert]

mmm, I like that, subject access request. How do I do one of those? Are shops subject to the DPA automatically?

Bert

[SS2.]

Ofcom..

[Parrot of Doom]

If he recorded them using a microphone placed next to a handsfree phone (so the call could be said not to be private) hes ok. If he recorded them electronically (ie microphone on the receiver, or via a jack) then he isn't.

[g_attrill]

Parrot of Doom said:

If he recorded them using a microphone placed next to a handsfree phone (so the call could be said not to be private) hes ok. If he recorded them electronically (ie microphone on the receiver, or via a jack) then he isn't.

That would just breach regulations relating to use of the telephone system, and the laws changed a few years back, I think it just requires some type of CE mark now (and to meet the relevant regs). Quite whether it affects the admissability of evidence, I have no idea. I think the failure to notify the other party makes it much more difficult to get admitted in the first place too.

[g_attrill]

BertBert said:

mmm, I like that, subject access request. How do I do one of those? Are shops subject to the DPA automatically?

Unlikely, since Durant v FSA the personal data needs to form part of a "relevant filing system" and IMO a tape recorded conversation is unlikely to fall within that definition.

[Jasandjules]

g_attrill said:

BertBert said:

mmm, I like that, subject access request. How do I do one of those? Are shops subject to the DPA automatically?

Unlikely, since Durant v FSA the personal data needs to form part of a "relevant filing system" and IMO a tape recorded conversation is unlikely to fall within that definition.

Anyone who holds personal data is subject to the DPA as a rule. There are exceptions.

I would have thought it depends on what information was given during the call, for example anything which had been identifying the caller, i.e. the OP. Then any call which is recorded would have to have been stored somewhere one assumes, unless of course the chap is lying and claiming he recorded to call to see if you will continue..

When for example an insurance company records their calls a S7 request gets copies of the tapes.

[Parrot of Doom]

g_attrill said:

Parrot of Doom said:

If he recorded them using a microphone placed next to a handsfree phone (so the call could be said not to be private) hes ok. If he recorded them electronically (ie microphone on the receiver, or via a jack) then he isn't.

That would just breach regulations relating to use of the telephone system, and the laws changed a few years back, I think it just requires some type of CE mark now (and to meet the relevant regs). Quite whether it affects the admissability of evidence, I have no idea. I think the failure to notify the other party makes it much more difficult to get admitted in the first place too.

No its quite legal to records a handsfree phone conversation, you do not need to inform anyone, and the evidence is admissible. Handsfree is not a private phone call.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/21_11_0...

[g_attrill]

Parrot of Doom said:

g_attrill said:

Parrot of Doom said:

If he recorded them using a microphone placed next to a handsfree phone (so the call could be said not to be private) hes ok. If he recorded them electronically (ie microphone on the receiver, or via a jack) then he isn't.

That would just breach regulations relating to use of the telephone system, and the laws changed a few years back, I think it just requires some type of CE mark now (and to meet the relevant regs). Quite whether it affects the admissability of evidence, I have no idea. I think the failure to notify the other party makes it much more difficult to get admitted in the first place too.

No its quite legal to records a handsfree phone conversation, you do not need to inform anyone, and the evidence is admissible. Handsfree is not a private phone call.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/21_11_0...

I assumed you were referring to connecting an unapproved device to the telephone system, a separate argument to recording conversations.

Regardless, it is legal to record any private conversation with the permission of at least one of the parties involved, even with a device directly connected to the phone system. The admissibility in court (which I think is what is discussed above) is a separate matter to the pure legality of the act.

[bite-me]

Bert,

I'm not going to read through all the replies..

I'm in telecoms, and do this as well.

basically,,,,,

You can record anyone or be recorded (voice over phone), you must announce at the begining of the conversation that you "may" be recorded for what ever purpose, training, legal etc.

If you don't you can still record and it's legal but it can not be used as evidence of any kind and will get thrown out of court..

thats it

period !

Peace out

BertBert said:

I am having an itsy bitsy dispute with a bathroom fitting shop and the proprieter has just let slip that he has recorded all of our phone conversations. I'm not particularly worried about it as it will support my side of the argument (being we can't agree what has been agreed).

But are there any legalities about recording conversations bearing in mind that he is the retailer/supplier and I am (a simple!) MOP?

bert

[BertBert]

Cheers, I was hoping to add it to the amount of grief said goods and services provider is going to get from me!
Bert
I am not a vindictive man you understand.

[Boosted LS1]

I spent years in private investigation. Covert telephone recordings were routine and even if detected the police did nothing about it and neither did any solicitors. I'm not sure if the 'tapes' were ever used in court as we usually just provided the equipment and installations if need be. Installations were always with consent by the owner, proprietor etc. I suspect a tap out on the street would get you into some trouble. That said, the police have been known to make covert recordings but maybe they keep that to themselves and can't use the information in court.

[BertBert]

I am coming more from the consumer rights angle. The problem with the job was the supplier never did what they said. So I took to writing back confirming the conversations. Said supplier then said I was twisting his words and he had recorded the conversations.

Bert