A frame towing a competition car
Discussion
Okay thinking of building one of the above (not the traffic cone)
It will be less then 750Kg
It will be an ex road car
It will have road legal tyres
It will have a working transmission and will be capable of moving by itself
It won't be taxed,insured,MOTed
So will that be legal to tow as behind a car on an A frame
Would officially scrapping the car make a difference
Edited by thinfourth2 on Friday 21st December 12:18
In years gone past I towed a part-built kit car on an A-frame from Worcestershire to the Lake District, and home again 2 years later. This was a clearly-not-roadworthy car, and I pondered the same thing.
On the way home, I stopped for juice at a motorway service station, and a police car pulled up at the pump next to me, and proceeded to fill up. He looked at what I was towing, and didn't bat an eyelid.
I took this as tacit permission to keep going.
(This was about 11 years ago, mind you.)
Oli.
On the way home, I stopped for juice at a motorway service station, and a police car pulled up at the pump next to me, and proceeded to fill up. He looked at what I was towing, and didn't bat an eyelid.
I took this as tacit permission to keep going.
(This was about 11 years ago, mind you.)
Oli.
heres the NTTA website
http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/index.htm
Also
UK
When attached with a fixed towing frame a car is considered to be a trailer and is subject to trailer regulations.
example:
It may be worth looking at your car insurance will it be applicable to cover your towed vehicle (in case of accidental damage to a third party vehicle / person )
While towing ?
http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/index.htm
Also
UK
When attached with a fixed towing frame a car is considered to be a trailer and is subject to trailer regulations.
example:
It may be worth looking at your car insurance will it be applicable to cover your towed vehicle (in case of accidental damage to a third party vehicle / person )
While towing ?
Edited by DBSV8 on Friday 21st December 12:53
The question to be asked is and Plod will have to prove- is it a mechanically propelled vehicle under Road Traffic Act 1988?
Section 185:
motor vehicle” means, subject to section 20 of the [1970 c. 44.] Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970 (which makes special provision about invalid carriages, within the meaning of that Act), a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on roads.
Also “motor car” means a mechanically propelled vehicle, not being a motor cycle or an invalid carriage, which is constructed itself to carry a load or passengers and the weight of which unladen—
(a) if it is constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects, is adapted to carry not more than seven passengers exclusive of the driver and is fitted with tyres of such type as may be specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State, does not exceed 3050 kilograms,
(b) if it is constructed or adapted for use for the conveyance of goods or burden of any description, does not exceed 3050 kilograms, or 3500 kilograms if the vehicle carries a container or containers for holding for the purposes of its propulsion any fuel which is wholly gaseous at 17.5 degrees Celsius under a pressure of 1.013 bar or plant and materials for producing such fuel,
(c) does not exceed 2540 kilograms in a case not falling within sub-paragraph (a) or (b) above.
Whilst it is often a question of fact and degree for the Mags to decide, from what shown, I believe the majority verdict will be -a MPV (motor car). As such used on the road will have to comply with Insurance/Con and Use Regs etc.
Under Vehicle Excise Act MPV dfefeined as a mechanically propelled vehicle, or anything, whether or not is is a vehicle, that has been,but has ceased to be, a mech propelled vehicle (S62 VERA 94)
So Excise Licence required.The car attached to the Camper van in my opinion needs all.
A MPV towed by another continues to be such if it is towed by another vehicle (Cobb v Wharton [1971])and interestingly a car which is rebuiult for off road racing continues to be 'intended' for use on a road even though those rebuilding it never intended to use it so again (Nichol v Leach [1972]).
To be fireproof then the only way to move the yellow Minimoke? on a road in UK is to drive onto a trailer. Loading and off loading not on a road or public place.
dvd
Section 185:
motor vehicle” means, subject to section 20 of the [1970 c. 44.] Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970 (which makes special provision about invalid carriages, within the meaning of that Act), a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on roads.
Also “motor car” means a mechanically propelled vehicle, not being a motor cycle or an invalid carriage, which is constructed itself to carry a load or passengers and the weight of which unladen—
(a) if it is constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects, is adapted to carry not more than seven passengers exclusive of the driver and is fitted with tyres of such type as may be specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State, does not exceed 3050 kilograms,
(b) if it is constructed or adapted for use for the conveyance of goods or burden of any description, does not exceed 3050 kilograms, or 3500 kilograms if the vehicle carries a container or containers for holding for the purposes of its propulsion any fuel which is wholly gaseous at 17.5 degrees Celsius under a pressure of 1.013 bar or plant and materials for producing such fuel,
(c) does not exceed 2540 kilograms in a case not falling within sub-paragraph (a) or (b) above.
Whilst it is often a question of fact and degree for the Mags to decide, from what shown, I believe the majority verdict will be -a MPV (motor car). As such used on the road will have to comply with Insurance/Con and Use Regs etc.
Under Vehicle Excise Act MPV dfefeined as a mechanically propelled vehicle, or anything, whether or not is is a vehicle, that has been,but has ceased to be, a mech propelled vehicle (S62 VERA 94)
So Excise Licence required.The car attached to the Camper van in my opinion needs all.
A MPV towed by another continues to be such if it is towed by another vehicle (Cobb v Wharton [1971])and interestingly a car which is rebuiult for off road racing continues to be 'intended' for use on a road even though those rebuilding it never intended to use it so again (Nichol v Leach [1972]).
To be fireproof then the only way to move the yellow Minimoke? on a road in UK is to drive onto a trailer. Loading and off loading not on a road or public place.
dvd
As far as I understand it, if it has a driver it has to be legal as a road going vehicle in its own right (tax, MOT, insurance etc). If it doesn't have a driver then it has to be legal as a trailer (for example braked/unbraked weight limits, tyres, lights etc). However, even when it is subject to regulations as a trailer it may still be subject to regulations as a vehicle. For example if it's not road legal, I don't think it becomes road legal by virtue of you attaching an A frame to it. The only way to stop the vehicle regulations from applying to it is to stop it from being on the road i.e. put it on a trailer.
I use a trailer for my competition car as it could not begin to be considered road legal (slicks are a bit of a giveaway 
). The trailer is 4-wheeled and was a home build in the 1970s by someone that raced the same model of car in modsports and it seems to have no "plate" per the NTTA website. I can't determine if it needs one, there is stuff about trailers made after 1982 but mine wasn't.
I do live in hope that any policeman that saw me loading outside my house at 6am on a Sunday morning would realise I'm not trying to take the piss and let me get on with it - I don't have enough driveway to load up off the street without the tow vehicle completely blocking the road (and probably killing myself due to the gradient between the garage and the street making the loading process really dangerous if I attempted it there).
). The trailer is 4-wheeled and was a home build in the 1970s by someone that raced the same model of car in modsports and it seems to have no "plate" per the NTTA website. I can't determine if it needs one, there is stuff about trailers made after 1982 but mine wasn't.I do live in hope that any policeman that saw me loading outside my house at 6am on a Sunday morning would realise I'm not trying to take the piss and let me get on with it - I don't have enough driveway to load up off the street without the tow vehicle completely blocking the road (and probably killing myself due to the gradient between the garage and the street making the loading process really dangerous if I attempted it there).
Dwight VanDriver said:
The question to be asked is and Plod will have to prove- is it a mechanically propelled vehicle under Road Traffic Act 1988?
Section 185:
motor vehicle” means, subject to section 20 of the [1970 c. 44.] Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970 (which makes special provision about invalid carriages, within the meaning of that Act), a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on roads.
Also “motor car” means a mechanically propelled vehicle, not being a motor cycle or an invalid carriage, which is constructed itself to carry a load or passengers and the weight of which unladen—
(a) if it is constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects, is adapted to carry not more than seven passengers exclusive of the driver and is fitted with tyres of such type as may be specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State, does not exceed 3050 kilograms,
(b) if it is constructed or adapted for use for the conveyance of goods or burden of any description, does not exceed 3050 kilograms, or 3500 kilograms if the vehicle carries a container or containers for holding for the purposes of its propulsion any fuel which is wholly gaseous at 17.5 degrees Celsius under a pressure of 1.013 bar or plant and materials for producing such fuel,
(c) does not exceed 2540 kilograms in a case not falling within sub-paragraph (a) or (b) above.
Whilst it is often a question of fact and degree for the Mags to decide, from what shown, I believe the majority verdict will be -a MPV (motor car). As such used on the road will have to comply with Insurance/Con and Use Regs etc.
Under Vehicle Excise Act MPV dfefeined as a mechanically propelled vehicle, or anything, whether or not is is a vehicle, that has been,but has ceased to be, a mech propelled vehicle (S62 VERA 94)
So Excise Licence required.The car attached to the Camper van in my opinion needs all.
A MPV towed by another continues to be such if it is towed by another vehicle (Cobb v Wharton [1971])and interestingly a car which is rebuiult for off road racing continues to be 'intended' for use on a road even though those rebuilding it never intended to use it so again (Nichol v Leach [1972]).
To be fireproof then the only way to move the yellow Minimoke? on a road in UK is to drive onto a trailer. Loading and off loading not on a road or public place.
dvd
If i read this right then basically anything that can move by itself and you can sit on/in can be classed as a motor vehicle.Section 185:
motor vehicle” means, subject to section 20 of the [1970 c. 44.] Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970 (which makes special provision about invalid carriages, within the meaning of that Act), a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on roads.
Also “motor car” means a mechanically propelled vehicle, not being a motor cycle or an invalid carriage, which is constructed itself to carry a load or passengers and the weight of which unladen—
(a) if it is constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects, is adapted to carry not more than seven passengers exclusive of the driver and is fitted with tyres of such type as may be specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State, does not exceed 3050 kilograms,
(b) if it is constructed or adapted for use for the conveyance of goods or burden of any description, does not exceed 3050 kilograms, or 3500 kilograms if the vehicle carries a container or containers for holding for the purposes of its propulsion any fuel which is wholly gaseous at 17.5 degrees Celsius under a pressure of 1.013 bar or plant and materials for producing such fuel,
(c) does not exceed 2540 kilograms in a case not falling within sub-paragraph (a) or (b) above.
Whilst it is often a question of fact and degree for the Mags to decide, from what shown, I believe the majority verdict will be -a MPV (motor car). As such used on the road will have to comply with Insurance/Con and Use Regs etc.
Under Vehicle Excise Act MPV dfefeined as a mechanically propelled vehicle, or anything, whether or not is is a vehicle, that has been,but has ceased to be, a mech propelled vehicle (S62 VERA 94)
So Excise Licence required.The car attached to the Camper van in my opinion needs all.
A MPV towed by another continues to be such if it is towed by another vehicle (Cobb v Wharton [1971])and interestingly a car which is rebuiult for off road racing continues to be 'intended' for use on a road even though those rebuilding it never intended to use it so again (Nichol v Leach [1972]).
To be fireproof then the only way to move the yellow Minimoke? on a road in UK is to drive onto a trailer. Loading and off loading not on a road or public place.
dvd
so what is you take on these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSKbsNxbb_8
caravan movers
Which are a system of electric motors that move the caravan.
So are these illegal unless the caravan has an MOT etc
Anyway seeing that this is sort of a legal minefield what would you say that most human traffic cops would do if they say a well built autotest special being towed on an A frame
Also what about dollies where 2 wheels are lifted off the tarmac
When a vehicle is towed using an A-Frame attachment it becomes a trailer and needs to comply with trailer regs.
Any trailer over 750KGS gross weight must be braked.
However if any brakes are fitted they must work on the overrun of the trailer, and must produce an efficiency of 50%
The combination must also be able to be reversed.
Offences would usually be in relation to the braking system not operational (con&use regs), and perhaps using a prohibited vehicle on a motorway (Motorway regs).
The only legal use of an A-Frame is to recover a broken down vehicle to a place of safety.
A dolly would be a second trailer and therefore subject to prohibitive speed limits (40/30/20 in NSL from memory)
Any trailer over 750KGS gross weight must be braked.
However if any brakes are fitted they must work on the overrun of the trailer, and must produce an efficiency of 50%
The combination must also be able to be reversed.
Offences would usually be in relation to the braking system not operational (con&use regs), and perhaps using a prohibited vehicle on a motorway (Motorway regs).
The only legal use of an A-Frame is to recover a broken down vehicle to a place of safety.
A dolly would be a second trailer and therefore subject to prohibitive speed limits (40/30/20 in NSL from memory)
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