Relative danger

[supermono]

Running out of fuel story said:

Apparently 67 people were killed and 950 were injured on the hardshoulder across England between 2000-2004

Does anyone know this as a percentage of people stopping on the hard shoulder? Seems incredibly (yet believably) high.

How does this compare with the percentage of people killed / injured for driving at 95mph? A speed you would expect to be made to park on the hard shoulder by a policeman for if he caught you?

SM

[GPSHead]

supermono said:

Running out of fuel story said:

Apparently 67 people were killed and 950 were injured on the hardshoulder across England between 2000-2004

Does anyone know this as a percentage of people stopping on the hard shoulder? Seems incredibly (yet believably) high.

How does this compare with the percentage of people killed / injured for driving at 95mph? A speed you would expect to be made to park on the hard shoulder by a policeman for if he caught you?

SM

Ssh. You're not allowed to ask awkward questions like that. You're just doing it to upset our masters.

Speeding is always bad. Cameras save lives. There's no need to think for yourself. Forget about the silly numbers, they're just what the nasty petrolheads use to attempt to justify their dreadful actions, and they're too complicated for you to understand anyway. There's only one number that's important and that's the one on your speedo.

Just believe, don't question, because only evil heretics do that, and soon fines will be brought in for such audacity. After all, our masters are telling you it's true, and as you know you can trust them. Isn't it nice that they've done all the thinking for you? It's insulting and ungrateful to argue with them. Drive slowly and everything will be fine. I don't want to catch you thinking about the subject (or anything else political for that matter) again. Just work, do what you're told to, believe what you're told to and be a good drone.

[Mg6b]

Hard shoulders are very dangeorus places. They are adjacent places where people propell large amounts of heavy metal at high velocity, many of whom are not concentrating or have poor observation and technique.

Stopping on the hard shoulder with brightly flashing lights in a highly visibly marked lump of metal is a risk assessment that is acceptable in certain circumstances along with the relevant training. This has the propensity to warn those who are not paying attention that there is a problem.

Stopping at night on the hard shoulder and turning off the lights of the vehicle is not an uncommon situation. Someone else travelling at higher speeds in the vicinity of the obstruction in an unlit area is unlikely to to be aware of the obstruction until it too late to react.

You are only 10 feet away from sudden and violent death when standing on a hard shoulder!

Edited by Mg6b on Saturday 22 December 15:45

[streaky]

Safer to stop in the overtaking lane to change a tyre or have a picnic, then - Streaky

[rewc]

The danger will disappear when they become the inside lane as per government plans.

[Fort Jefferson]

supermono said:

Running out of fuel story said:

Apparently 67 people were killed and 950 were injured on the hardshoulder across England between 2000-2004

Seems incredibly (yet believably) high.

It doesn't to me. What you need to do is to drive at 55 to 60 following a lorry/lorries, see how often they drift onto the hard shoulder for no reason. Then think what would happen if you were parked on it.

[Fat Richie]

Fort Jefferson said:

supermono said:

Running out of fuel story said:

Apparently 67 people were killed and 950 were injured on the hardshoulder across England between 2000-2004

Seems incredibly (yet believably) high.

It doesn't to me. What you need to do is to drive at 55 to 60 following a lorry/lorries, see how often they drift onto the hard shoulder for no reason. Then think what would happen if you were parked on it.

Indeed! Several months ago the top hose on my (real) Mini blew whilst travelling home on the M5. Stopped on hard shoulder with hazard lights on. HATO pulls up ahead of me with their lights on (driver was a Mini entusiast and stopped to see if he could help, nice of him).

Stood there chatting on the embankment awaiting Britannia Rescue when we look round to see a 40-tonner suddenly swerve back into lane one off the hard shoulder missing the Mini by about a foot!

[dilbert]

rewc said:

The danger will disappear when they become the inside lane as per government plans.

Probably so that they can charge for the use of the outside lane, but still tell everyone that nothing has changed..... Everyones a winner!

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 22 December 19:54

[Mr2Mike]

rewc said:

The danger will disappear when they become the inside lane as per government plans.

So if you break down you can just stop in any lane you want in total safety?

[odyssey2200]

Last time I broke down on the motorway (knew I should have checked that oil) a Highways Agency womble arrived, took some details and advised me not to get back into the car ( I was stood behind the crash barrier) as the average life expectancy of someone sat in their car was 11 Minutes.


11 Mins!!

[Zumbruk]

odyssey2200 said:

Last time I broke down on the motorway (knew I should have checked that oil) a Highways Agency womble arrived, took some details and advised me not to get back into the car ( I was stood behind the crash barrier) as the average life expectancy of someone sat in their car was 11 Minutes.


11 Mins!!

Blimey, I must have been killed about 6 times as I waited for the RAC on the Southbound A1(M) near the Hatfield Tunnel for an hour, then.

Seriously, though, hard shoulders are seriously scary and dangerous places. Not somewhere you want to spend any amount of time. That's why the RAC bloke parked his van about 20 yards behind us, with the wheels turned in - to protect him from the wits drifting onto the hard shoulder.

[esselte]

odyssey2200 said:

Last time I broke down on the motorway (knew I should have checked that oil) a Highways Agency womble arrived, took some details and advised me not to get back into the car ( I was stood behind the crash barrier) as the average life expectancy of someone sat in their car was 11 Minutes.


11 Mins!!

That doesn't ring true to me...your car would be hit whether you were in it or not...this is like saying your car will be hit after being there for 11 minutes.....no,the more I think about it the more like BS it seems

[GreenV8S]

odyssey2200 said:

Highways Agency womble said:

the average life expectancy of someone sat in their car is 11 Minutes.

That's rather hard to believe, since it's not *that* rare to see people on the hard shoulder and I would expect that only a tiny proportion of them get killed.

[Hooli]

last time i brokedown on a motorway (trashing the old bonnie & it threw the exhaust pipe away ) i plodded up the hard shoulder till i got to one of those raised hiding places for the pold & stood up there.
bugger standing on the hard shoulder, those other drivers are scary enough when you've got a chance to avoid them.

[Mg6b]

odyssey2200 said:

Last time I broke down on the motorway (knew I should have checked that oil) a Highways Agency womble arrived, took some details and advised me not to get back into the car ( I was stood behind the crash barrier) as the average life expectancy of someone sat in their car was 11 Minutes.


11 Mins!!

I worked for 11 years on a network of 3 of the busiest motorways in the South East. M4, M25 and M40.

My experience of hard shoulders is that many more people are hurt on them than they are in the carriageway. Not only by being struck by other moving traffic but from other instances like taking the top off a boiling expansion tank, trying to rescue valuables out of burning vehicles that have spontaneously combusted and from cars falling off badly positioned jacks when changing wheels.

An average of 11 minutes is not going to see your vehicle struck by another. Some vehicles remain on the hard shoulder at night for considerable periods in unlit areas without lights and are not struck. The policy used to be to leave them for another 4 hours if lights could be operated by getting into the vehicle. If not they were removed immediately when they were discovered by the police patrol.

vehicles left on the hard shoulder should be as far away to the left from the moving traffic as possible. Any movement to or from the vehicle should be done from the nearside. People should never turn their backs on moving traffic and if not alone and replacing a wheel or effecting an exploration of a breakdown or other repair, a spotter should be placed within hailing distance from the person doing the work so they can shout a warning to jump clear.

Stopping on hard shoulders adjacent to or within right handed bends is a very vulnerable place to be as momentum and the pitch and roll associated with weight change on vehicles as they traverse a right hand bend lend to them creeping or drifting onto the hard shoulder, especially the larger ones!

The vast majority of vehicles are rescued successfully without incident after spending hours on the hard shoulder. Most injuries to people on the hard shoulder do not happen because their own vehicle has been struck by another moving one.

Most are injured because they are unaware of the dangers of fast moving traffic, take their eye off the ball or are oblivious to the facts and regulations that can help them stay safe about emergency procedure s in such places like not wondering around, trying to hitch a lift, using the motorway phone to alert the authorities that they are there or try to cross the carriageway to get help.

You are never further away than 10 feet of violent and sudden death if you are standing on a hard shoulder and not paying the utmost attention to the behaviour of others hurtling towards you!

Edited by Mg6b on Monday 24th December 10:05

[GreenV8S]

Mg6b said:

Most are injured because they are unaware of the dangers of fast moving traffic, take their eye off the ball or are oblivious

A few decades ago I had a very near miss on the M10. The entry from the M1 is a long sweeping left-hander with two lanes. Half way round the corner I saw a car parked on the hard shoulder. As I got closer I could see a couple of people standing by it so as there was nobody else on the motorway I let the car drift right so that I was most of the way into lane two by the time I reached them. At the last possible moment, one of the people who had been standing with his back to me stepped back into the middle of lane one and knelt down to look under the car. I must have missed him by less than a foot. I hope he learned his lesson - I certainly did.

[Sgt Bilko]

BUMP

Tip: When your recovery or a HATO says, stand behind the barrier is there is one, DON'T stand 2 inches behind it. The thing is designed to "give" a meter or so to absorb the momentum. If you don't move further back and something hits it, it tends to act as a knife and you get two horizontal slices in each of your legs!