Driving or not driving?
Discussion
If you are sitting in a vehicle, whilst the vehicle is stationary, but the engine is running, are you driving the vehicle?
I would like to know the opinion of the BiB on here, as the answer could influence my behaviour towards answering a mobile phone for example, should I pull over, stop, and answer, or should I also switch off the engine?
In the run up to christmas I spent quite a lot of time driving 7.5 tonne trucks, with digital tachographs. If the vehicle stops moving, even without applying the "handbrake", the digital tacho automatically switches from "driving" to "other work". So as far as that, government approved, device is concerned, sitting in a stationary vehicle, with your foot on the footbrake and the engine running, does not constitute driving.
Comments please.
I would like to know the opinion of the BiB on here, as the answer could influence my behaviour towards answering a mobile phone for example, should I pull over, stop, and answer, or should I also switch off the engine?
In the run up to christmas I spent quite a lot of time driving 7.5 tonne trucks, with digital tachographs. If the vehicle stops moving, even without applying the "handbrake", the digital tacho automatically switches from "driving" to "other work". So as far as that, government approved, device is concerned, sitting in a stationary vehicle, with your foot on the footbrake and the engine running, does not constitute driving.
Comments please.
andmole said:
If you are sitting in a vehicle, whilst the vehicle is stationary, but the engine is running, are you driving the vehicle?
I would like to know the opinion of the BiB on here, as the answer could influence my behaviour towards answering a mobile phone for example, should I pull over, stop, and answer, or should I also switch off the engine?
In the run up to christmas I spent quite a lot of time driving 7.5 tonne trucks, with digital tachographs. If the vehicle stops moving, even without applying the "handbrake", the digital tacho automatically switches from "driving" to "other work". So as far as that, government approved, device is concerned, sitting in a stationary vehicle, with your foot on the footbrake and the engine running, does not constitute driving.
Comments please.
You are technically driving.I would like to know the opinion of the BiB on here, as the answer could influence my behaviour towards answering a mobile phone for example, should I pull over, stop, and answer, or should I also switch off the engine?
In the run up to christmas I spent quite a lot of time driving 7.5 tonne trucks, with digital tachographs. If the vehicle stops moving, even without applying the "handbrake", the digital tacho automatically switches from "driving" to "other work". So as far as that, government approved, device is concerned, sitting in a stationary vehicle, with your foot on the footbrake and the engine running, does not constitute driving.
Comments please.
However I wouldn't expect anyone to be issued with a FPN where they are parked with the handbrake on out of the flow of traffic.
vonhosen said:
andmole said:
If you are sitting in a vehicle, whilst the vehicle is stationary, but the engine is running, are you driving the vehicle?
I would like to know the opinion of the BiB on here, as the answer could influence my behaviour towards answering a mobile phone for example, should I pull over, stop, and answer, or should I also switch off the engine?
In the run up to christmas I spent quite a lot of time driving 7.5 tonne trucks, with digital tachographs. If the vehicle stops moving, even without applying the "handbrake", the digital tacho automatically switches from "driving" to "other work". So as far as that, government approved, device is concerned, sitting in a stationary vehicle, with your foot on the footbrake and the engine running, does not constitute driving.
Comments please.
You are technically driving.I would like to know the opinion of the BiB on here, as the answer could influence my behaviour towards answering a mobile phone for example, should I pull over, stop, and answer, or should I also switch off the engine?
In the run up to christmas I spent quite a lot of time driving 7.5 tonne trucks, with digital tachographs. If the vehicle stops moving, even without applying the "handbrake", the digital tacho automatically switches from "driving" to "other work". So as far as that, government approved, device is concerned, sitting in a stationary vehicle, with your foot on the footbrake and the engine running, does not constitute driving.
Comments please.
However I wouldn't expect anyone to be issued with a FPN where they are parked with the handbrake on out of the flow of traffic.
andmole said:
In the run up to christmas I spent quite a lot of time driving 7.5 tonne trucks, with digital tachographs. If the vehicle stops moving, even without applying the "handbrake", the digital tacho automatically switches from "driving" to "other work". So as far as that, government approved, device is concerned, sitting in a stationary vehicle, with your foot on the footbrake and the engine running, does not constitute driving.
Comments please.
It's still driving, If you are stuck in heavy traffic but moving 50 feet every 3 minutes you are still driving, you can't call sat in heavy traffic not driving.Comments please.
As far as Tachos go any changes in driving/other work/ rest has to be more than 15 minutes or it is still recorded as the previous mode, so stopping for a brew for 8 minutes is a waste of time.
The theory is that you are driving until such time as you stop driving. A temporary cessation is still driving. However, it is a questions 'of fact' which means that evidence can be brought forward to show that you were not driving.
For instance, driving to work. You are driving from the time your car moves from your garage until you park it in the firm's parking bay, even if you stop for a packet of fags, a set of lights or an accident. So the theory is that you were driving all the way to work. But say you stopped to deliver a bunch of flowers to your mother. If she was standing on the kerbside (I'm not casting aspertions about your mother) and you just handed them out to her through the window, then still driving. Stop the car and leave them on the doorstep, still driving. However, stop the car, switch off engine, knock on door, go inside, have cup of tea, be told off for not being married, get back into car twenty minutes later = not driving for that period although still 'in charge'.
For instance, driving to work. You are driving from the time your car moves from your garage until you park it in the firm's parking bay, even if you stop for a packet of fags, a set of lights or an accident. So the theory is that you were driving all the way to work. But say you stopped to deliver a bunch of flowers to your mother. If she was standing on the kerbside (I'm not casting aspertions about your mother) and you just handed them out to her through the window, then still driving. Stop the car and leave them on the doorstep, still driving. However, stop the car, switch off engine, knock on door, go inside, have cup of tea, be told off for not being married, get back into car twenty minutes later = not driving for that period although still 'in charge'.
streaky said:
Derek Smith said:
... However, stop the car, switch off engine, knock on door, go inside, have cup of tea, be told off for not being married, get back into car twenty minutes later ...
You have a Jewish mother? - StreakyDerek Smith said:
However, stop the car, switch off engine, knock on door, go inside, have cup of tea, be told off for not being married, get back into car twenty minutes later = not driving for that period although still 'in charge'.
Eh? At what point do you stop being 'in charge' then? What if you stayed overnight?If you take that to its logical conclusion you are 'in charge' of a vehicle the entire time it is parked on a public road outside your house (in, say, a designated resident's parking bay). And you've just gone to (insert country of choice) on a 3 day business trip......!
Red Devil said:
Derek Smith said:
However, stop the car, switch off engine, knock on door, go inside, have cup of tea, be told off for not being married, get back into car twenty minutes later = not driving for that period although still 'in charge'.
Eh? At what point do you stop being 'in charge' then? What if you stayed overnight?If you take that to its logical conclusion you are 'in charge' of a vehicle the entire time it is parked on a public road outside your house (in, say, a designated resident's parking bay). And you've just gone to (insert country of choice) on a 3 day business trip......!
Fort Jefferson said:
vonhosen said:
You are technically driving.
However I wouldn't expect anyone to be issued with a FPN where they are parked with the handbrake on out of the flow of traffic.
I would think "out of the flow of traffic" is the important thing here.However I wouldn't expect anyone to be issued with a FPN where they are parked with the handbrake on out of the flow of traffic.
In a queue of traffic
7db said:
Driving? It's not always the relevant thing to define:
Notice that for drinking, the criterion is "in charge" - this includes asleep in back.
For mobile phone use it is "whilst on a journey" - this includes, according to Hansard - popping into a newsagent for a paper mid-journey.
The application of the definition of driving to the H/H mobile phone offence is once again in the domain of officer discretion. Notice that for drinking, the criterion is "in charge" - this includes asleep in back.
For mobile phone use it is "whilst on a journey" - this includes, according to Hansard - popping into a newsagent for a paper mid-journey.
A magistrate would have to convict if a driver was put in front of him having used his mobile whilst on a road, stationary, but mid journey with his engine on, even if safely out of the traffic flow.
Indeed, if I correctly recall the excerpt of Hansard that 7db is referring to, it detailed a debate about an amendment seeking an exemption to the offence of mobile phone use while stationary in a queue.
The amendment was defeated, despite all parties agreeing that such a prosecution would be against the purpose of the legislation. The best protection offered against such an inappropriate prosecution was the discretionary common sense of the police.
I wonder to what degree that analysis comforts, with the obvious and real pressure that certain officers currently feel to achieve and exceed certain performance targets.
Derek Smith said:
Red Devil said:
Derek Smith said:
However, stop the car, switch off engine, knock on door, go inside, have cup of tea, be told off for not being married, get back into car twenty minutes later = not driving for that period although still 'in charge'.
Eh? At what point do you stop being 'in charge' then? What if you stayed overnight?If you take that to its logical conclusion you are 'in charge' of a vehicle the entire time it is parked on a public road outside your house (in, say, a designated resident's parking bay). And you've just gone to (insert country of choice) on a 3 day business trip......!
FishFace said:
Derek Smith said:
Red Devil said:
Derek Smith said:
However, stop the car, switch off engine, knock on door, go inside, have cup of tea, be told off for not being married, get back into car twenty minutes later = not driving for that period although still 'in charge'.
Eh? At what point do you stop being 'in charge' then? What if you stayed overnight?If you take that to its logical conclusion you are 'in charge' of a vehicle the entire time it is parked on a public road outside your house (in, say, a designated resident's parking bay). And you've just gone to (insert country of choice) on a 3 day business trip......!
FishFace said:
Indeed, but in what circumstances can an FPN be given? I know it can't be given for "causing or permitting", but can it be given to someone "using" the vehicle but not with the vehicle? Or is it generally only for the driver?
If they are with the vehicle (& they are a licence holder) there isn't an offence. It's anyone who left it there with the engine running.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff