Poorly treated by the police + ticket anything I can do?
Discussion
Will try and keep this short as possible...
OK so its 12.15AM Christmas Eve and I’ve just picked up my GF as she was coming to spend Christmas with me.
Approaching the lights and there are two lanes.
The left hand lane is empty but the right hand lane has two cars in it, one of them is a police car.
As I approach the lights they change to green. I momentarily think "Ill just stop behind the still stationary police car just to be on the safe side" but then I think "the left lane is empty so why stop I’m not doing anything wrong" so I get in the left lane and proceed past the two cars who haven’t moved off yet.
As I drive on I notice a lorry waiting to pull out a side road.
As I am still quite far away I prepare for him to pull out... he doesn’t though, but then when I’m about 20 yards away he decides to pull out causing me to brake.
Just after this I notice that the car behind is driving very, very close to me with full beams on.
I complain to GF about this as my car has a very low to the ground driving position so anyone tailgating me like this completely blinds me so I attempted to put a bit of distance between me and the car behind me as all I could see in all my mirrors were his head lamps.
The driver behind me now is now driving rather aggressively, and my girlfriend also notices how bright his lights are I had dipped my rear view mirror and assumed it was some idiot wanting to race me but then noticed the blue lights.
I pull over and tall police man asks me to step out of the car.
I get out rather bemused and a shorter one asks for my licence which I give to him.
While he is in his car checking my licence the tall one asks me what the speed limit of Turnpike Lane was. I said 30 to which he asks why I was doing 60 MPH\. I look at him amazed and said there is no way I was doing 60 miles per hour more 30-35.
He then says they noticed me when I under took them at the lights and nearly crashed into a lorry.
I explain to him that I didn’t undertake I had approached the lights and they had changed so rather than stop behind them, I just kept going on in the empty lane I didn’t know that there was anything wrong with that.
He said that I was right and there isn’t anything wrong with that (
) I then said that the lorry pulled out unexpectedly causing me to brake and he didn’t dispute that either, saying it was the way I pulled off that alerted them.
I said I didn’t realise I was going so fast and that he was blinding me with his headlamps so I was watching the road keeping an eye on my mirrors.
He then said "that was no excuse to be going 50 mph" (he had now changed it to 50 mph not 60) he then said that I could get a £60 fine and 3 points for doing that. I told him I was sorry and if I was going over the limit it was because he was tailgating me with his full beams on.
At this point my girlfriend gets out of the car asking what the problem is.
The shorter cop comes over now glaring at me saying aggressively "you don’t even seem that bothered!" I have to say his tone alarmed me he seemed seriously enraged.
I try to explain to him that I had just been saying I was sorry and if I was speeding it was because I was half blinded by their headlamps and he kept interrupting me and raising his voice saying "you know what? your talking your way into getting a ticket, in fact your getting a ticket I’m going to give you a ticket!" and stormed off back to his car.
I asked the taller cop why he was treating me like this I said I was sorry and my GF was asking him if this was necessary and there was no way she would have sat in a car with me if I was doing 50 on that road. She kept saying im a law abiding citizen and I was sorry and had been completely blinded.
The tall cop then went back to the police car began asking the short cop just to give us a warning. I can see the short cop not even looking at him and still writing out the ticket. The taller one was there for a while and then came back saying he wouldn’t undermine his colleague. The shorter cop then came out and started to issue me with the ticket. We kept saying sorry and he completely ignored us. I went and stood by the wall and then the short cop started shouting that I had to go over to him because if I didn’t do this properly my fine could double and there could be a warrant for my arrest () his demeanour became more and more threatening.
He then asked me to sign the ticket, I asked him what I had to sign and he just said I should sign it, then my girlfriend asked what I was signing and the cop put a line through it saying "refused to sign" we both say I have not refused to sign and the cop says to my GF "well he has just said he refuses to sign (a complete lie) and I haven’t got all night" At this point the taller cop is not saying a word and in fact looks as embarrassed as hell.
They give me my ticket and drive off.
I have to say I have not had many dealings with the police and the few I have had all over the past two years or so ( since I have been driving) have been terrible. It is especially bad as growing up in the area of SE London that I did almost everyone I know or grew up with hate the police, and I am always the one defending them saying if you don’t do anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about.
I always thought that if you were polite to them they will be polite back but all my experiences with them have been negative. They said if I didn’t agree with the ticket I should take it to court, is it worth it?
Edited to remove location of incident
OK so its 12.15AM Christmas Eve and I’ve just picked up my GF as she was coming to spend Christmas with me.
Approaching the lights and there are two lanes.
The left hand lane is empty but the right hand lane has two cars in it, one of them is a police car.
As I approach the lights they change to green. I momentarily think "Ill just stop behind the still stationary police car just to be on the safe side" but then I think "the left lane is empty so why stop I’m not doing anything wrong" so I get in the left lane and proceed past the two cars who haven’t moved off yet.
As I drive on I notice a lorry waiting to pull out a side road.
As I am still quite far away I prepare for him to pull out... he doesn’t though, but then when I’m about 20 yards away he decides to pull out causing me to brake.
Just after this I notice that the car behind is driving very, very close to me with full beams on.
I complain to GF about this as my car has a very low to the ground driving position so anyone tailgating me like this completely blinds me so I attempted to put a bit of distance between me and the car behind me as all I could see in all my mirrors were his head lamps.
The driver behind me now is now driving rather aggressively, and my girlfriend also notices how bright his lights are I had dipped my rear view mirror and assumed it was some idiot wanting to race me but then noticed the blue lights.
I pull over and tall police man asks me to step out of the car.
I get out rather bemused and a shorter one asks for my licence which I give to him.
While he is in his car checking my licence the tall one asks me what the speed limit of Turnpike Lane was. I said 30 to which he asks why I was doing 60 MPH\. I look at him amazed and said there is no way I was doing 60 miles per hour more 30-35.
He then says they noticed me when I under took them at the lights and nearly crashed into a lorry.
I explain to him that I didn’t undertake I had approached the lights and they had changed so rather than stop behind them, I just kept going on in the empty lane I didn’t know that there was anything wrong with that.
He said that I was right and there isn’t anything wrong with that (
) I then said that the lorry pulled out unexpectedly causing me to brake and he didn’t dispute that either, saying it was the way I pulled off that alerted them.I said I didn’t realise I was going so fast and that he was blinding me with his headlamps so I was watching the road keeping an eye on my mirrors.
He then said "that was no excuse to be going 50 mph" (he had now changed it to 50 mph not 60) he then said that I could get a £60 fine and 3 points for doing that. I told him I was sorry and if I was going over the limit it was because he was tailgating me with his full beams on.
At this point my girlfriend gets out of the car asking what the problem is.
The shorter cop comes over now glaring at me saying aggressively "you don’t even seem that bothered!" I have to say his tone alarmed me he seemed seriously enraged.
I try to explain to him that I had just been saying I was sorry and if I was speeding it was because I was half blinded by their headlamps and he kept interrupting me and raising his voice saying "you know what? your talking your way into getting a ticket, in fact your getting a ticket I’m going to give you a ticket!" and stormed off back to his car.
I asked the taller cop why he was treating me like this I said I was sorry and my GF was asking him if this was necessary and there was no way she would have sat in a car with me if I was doing 50 on that road. She kept saying im a law abiding citizen and I was sorry and had been completely blinded.
The tall cop then went back to the police car began asking the short cop just to give us a warning. I can see the short cop not even looking at him and still writing out the ticket. The taller one was there for a while and then came back saying he wouldn’t undermine his colleague. The shorter cop then came out and started to issue me with the ticket. We kept saying sorry and he completely ignored us. I went and stood by the wall and then the short cop started shouting that I had to go over to him because if I didn’t do this properly my fine could double and there could be a warrant for my arrest (
) his demeanour became more and more threatening.He then asked me to sign the ticket, I asked him what I had to sign and he just said I should sign it, then my girlfriend asked what I was signing and the cop put a line through it saying "refused to sign" we both say I have not refused to sign and the cop says to my GF "well he has just said he refuses to sign (a complete lie) and I haven’t got all night" At this point the taller cop is not saying a word and in fact looks as embarrassed as hell.
They give me my ticket and drive off.
I have to say I have not had many dealings with the police and the few I have had all over the past two years or so ( since I have been driving) have been terrible. It is especially bad as growing up in the area of SE London that I did almost everyone I know or grew up with hate the police, and I am always the one defending them saying if you don’t do anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about.
I always thought that if you were polite to them they will be polite back but all my experiences with them have been negative. They said if I didn’t agree with the ticket I should take it to court, is it worth it?
Edited to remove location of incident
Edited by Broken Hero on Wednesday 2nd January 10:02
Exactly what I thought when I read it.
Should never have lowered the height limit for bib and let all these short arses in tbh. But guess I would say that me being 6ft 5!
Did your girlfriend perhaps talk you into the ticket? I know they dont like passengers getting out of the car when people have been pulled. I got out once when my m8 got pulled and they went ape with me.
Should never have lowered the height limit for bib and let all these short arses in tbh. But guess I would say that me being 6ft 5!
Did your girlfriend perhaps talk you into the ticket? I know they dont like passengers getting out of the car when people have been pulled. I got out once when my m8 got pulled and they went ape with me.
Taffer said:
Make a complaint if you got his number.
It could be that come evaluation time, your complaint might be one of many, and the little shit (that's what he sounds like) might get disciplined or passed over for promotion.
Might make his behaviour worse though!
A complaint will not be dealt with until after the alleged offence has been processed and been to court if that is where it going!It could be that come evaluation time, your complaint might be one of many, and the little shit (that's what he sounds like) might get disciplined or passed over for promotion.
Might make his behaviour worse though!
You can register any complaint before the case though.
Mg6b said:
Taffer said:
Make a complaint if you got his number.
It could be that come evaluation time, your complaint might be one of many, and the little shit (that's what he sounds like) might get disciplined or passed over for promotion.
Might make his behaviour worse though!
A complaint will not be dealt with until after the alleged offence has been processed and been to court if that is where it going!It could be that come evaluation time, your complaint might be one of many, and the little shit (that's what he sounds like) might get disciplined or passed over for promotion.
Might make his behaviour worse though!
You can register any complaint before the case though.
I guess if the Court throws out the evidence presented by the MOP so will the Police?
wrinx
ETA: Thinking about it, evidence could be contaminated I guess so it kinda makes sense, but still not fair on the MOP if they feel they've been "fitted up".
Edited by wrinx on Monday 31st December 21:05
Your first mistake was not keeping an eye on them after passing them - forget the fact that they should have been in L1 anyhow.
Secondly, the GF should have kept stum.
Thirdly, you seem to have been plain unlucky - shame the taller one did not take the lead.
Hope 2008 brings measure of good fortune to offset this crazy scenario.
Secondly, the GF should have kept stum.
Thirdly, you seem to have been plain unlucky - shame the taller one did not take the lead.
Hope 2008 brings measure of good fortune to offset this crazy scenario.
what's the ticket for? Speeding? What does it say?
If it were me, I would write down everything I could remember of the incident (and do it with your GF too). Then in the cold light of day work out whether it's worth complaining and fighting the ticket.
From your account, the behaviour of plod doesn't sound good and I would think not sound good in court "why did you assert I was driving at 60 and then assert I was driving at 50?" "Did you not know or where you trying to trap me?".
Bert
If it were me, I would write down everything I could remember of the incident (and do it with your GF too). Then in the cold light of day work out whether it's worth complaining and fighting the ticket.
From your account, the behaviour of plod doesn't sound good and I would think not sound good in court "why did you assert I was driving at 60 and then assert I was driving at 50?" "Did you not know or where you trying to trap me?".
Bert
BertBert said:
what's the ticket for? Speeding? What does it say?
If it were me, I would write down everything I could remember of the incident (and do it with your GF too). Then in the cold light of day work out whether it's worth complaining and fighting the ticket.
Well, he's not only written it down, but published it too.If it were me, I would write down everything I could remember of the incident (and do it with your GF too). Then in the cold light of day work out whether it's worth complaining and fighting the ticket.
BertBert said:
From your account, the behaviour of plod doesn't sound good and I would think not sound good in court "why did you assert I was driving at 60 and then assert I was driving at 50?" "Did you not know or where you trying to trap me?".
Bert
If the ticket says "over 30mph" or "exceeding the speed limit", that will do. Two police officers -vs- one MOP = no contest.Bert
Streaky
Edited by streaky on Tuesday 1st January 08:40
Denis O said:
streaky said:
Bert
If the ticket says "over 30mpg" Streaky
We've got 3 V8's in our family and stand no chance of getting near 30 so will henceforth be immune from prosecution.
- StreakyPS - you know you're destroying the Earth, don't you. I mean, 3 V8s ... even the Chinese building a new coal-fired power station every four days can't compete with that!
- Sstreaky said:
Denis O said:
streaky said:
Bert
If the ticket says "over 30mpg" Streaky
We've got 3 V8's in our family and stand no chance of getting near 30 so will henceforth be immune from prosecution. - StreakyPS - you know you're destroying the Earth, don't you. I mean, 3 V8s ... even the Chinese building a new coal-fired power station every four days can't compete with that!
- SHave a prosperous and endorsement free 2008.
Did the PC say something along the lines of "I am reporting you for consideration of the question of prosecution in relation to you exceeding the speed limit. You do not have to say anything etc"? Not "rant rave I'm giving you a ticket froth froth"
That's the verbal NIP and I believe it's required to be given irrespective of the paperwork. Perhaps the lack of this NIP is the cause of the other PC's embarrassment?
Remember folks, if you get a snotty bobby, get collar numbers and write a letter. By all accounts (PH BiB, care to confirm or deny?) the letters do carry weight. Phone calls and other contact, less so.
That's the verbal NIP and I believe it's required to be given irrespective of the paperwork. Perhaps the lack of this NIP is the cause of the other PC's embarrassment?
Remember folks, if you get a snotty bobby, get collar numbers and write a letter. By all accounts (PH BiB, care to confirm or deny?) the letters do carry weight. Phone calls and other contact, less so.
CommanderJameson said:
Did the PC say something along the lines of "I am reporting you for consideration of the question of prosecution in relation to you exceeding the speed limit. You do not have to say anything etc"? Not "rant rave I'm giving you a ticket froth froth"
That's the verbal NIP and I believe it's required to be given irrespective of the paperwork. Perhaps the lack of this NIP is the cause of the other PC's embarrassment?
Remember folks, if you get a snotty bobby, get collar numbers and write a letter. By all accounts (PH BiB, care to confirm or deny?) the letters do carry weight. Phone calls and other contact, less so.
If given a FPN the NIP is not required.That's the verbal NIP and I believe it's required to be given irrespective of the paperwork. Perhaps the lack of this NIP is the cause of the other PC's embarrassment?
Remember folks, if you get a snotty bobby, get collar numbers and write a letter. By all accounts (PH BiB, care to confirm or deny?) the letters do carry weight. Phone calls and other contact, less so.
Similar thing happened to me the other night, heading down this well lit dual carriageway (which I'm sure used to be a 40 zone) and then came out of it onto a 50 limit and then spotted police car behind me, hundred yards later, flashing blues and I pull into a bus stop and get out.
First officer asks do you know why we pulled you over? I genuinely thought it was a 40 going into a 50 and I was doing 40 so I said No, why? He then explained that he had clocked me at 42 all the way down the previous road.
I said I thought it was a 40 zone, it's a dual carriageway isn't it?
That's when older officer took over. God what an attitude. From reasonable chat with officer one to being lectured by officer two. He asked me how do you tell a 30 zone and I answered isn't it posted on signs and he said no, you don't get 30 limit signs. His case was somewhat undermined by the twin 30 signs over his shoulders. I said I really thought I was driving to the conditions and the road I was on and then he started going off on one about not knowing the highway code and how I was talking myself into a driving without due care and attention since I couldn't tell him what conditions indicated a 30mph limit. Eventually after me telling him I didn't know a few different ways and apologising he let me know that it's where street lights are less than 200 yards apart. I wanted to ask what that was in modern measurements but held my tongue. More apologising and obviously a vehicle check later (by sensible officer one) and this second guy is still banging on. It's not as if there is anything more he has to say, he's just lecturing on the same point constantly and I'm there nodding, agreeing, apologising and being polite throughout.
Second officer is there at the roadside filling in the ticket asking my name and address etc and I'm having to wait for a break in his colleagues tirade so I can supply the info he needs.
Anyway, in the end I got a stop and search docket rather than a ticket so I can't complain about the outcome but it was hard passing the "attitude test" from officer two. Why he felt the need to take that tone and speak to me in the manner he did I have no idea. It did cross my mind just to tell him to shut up and I'd rather have the points but no, I nodded and grovelled like a good boy.
He could have passed the same information and been equally effective in my "education" without the attitude and lecture. I don't know if he thought I was a boy racer chav scum, but I was in my own, at the age of 37, I'm a scientist for a pharmaceutical company, driving an Elise and hardly racing along a dual carriageway at 8pm .
As i said, i cant complain and I appreciate the discretion shown but why the attitude? What does he think it will achieve? All it's done is tempered my appreciation for the BiB dealing with the situation without dishing out points and fines with the feeling that some policeman are complete
s and should be avoided at any costs. And I mean not just avoided to escape punishment but also avoided when they need assistance as well.
First officer asks do you know why we pulled you over? I genuinely thought it was a 40 going into a 50 and I was doing 40 so I said No, why? He then explained that he had clocked me at 42 all the way down the previous road.
I said I thought it was a 40 zone, it's a dual carriageway isn't it?
That's when older officer took over. God what an attitude. From reasonable chat with officer one to being lectured by officer two. He asked me how do you tell a 30 zone and I answered isn't it posted on signs and he said no, you don't get 30 limit signs. His case was somewhat undermined by the twin 30 signs over his shoulders. I said I really thought I was driving to the conditions and the road I was on and then he started going off on one about not knowing the highway code and how I was talking myself into a driving without due care and attention since I couldn't tell him what conditions indicated a 30mph limit. Eventually after me telling him I didn't know a few different ways and apologising he let me know that it's where street lights are less than 200 yards apart. I wanted to ask what that was in modern measurements but held my tongue. More apologising and obviously a vehicle check later (by sensible officer one) and this second guy is still banging on. It's not as if there is anything more he has to say, he's just lecturing on the same point constantly and I'm there nodding, agreeing, apologising and being polite throughout.
Second officer is there at the roadside filling in the ticket asking my name and address etc and I'm having to wait for a break in his colleagues tirade so I can supply the info he needs.
Anyway, in the end I got a stop and search docket rather than a ticket so I can't complain about the outcome but it was hard passing the "attitude test" from officer two. Why he felt the need to take that tone and speak to me in the manner he did I have no idea. It did cross my mind just to tell him to shut up and I'd rather have the points but no, I nodded and grovelled like a good boy.
He could have passed the same information and been equally effective in my "education" without the attitude and lecture. I don't know if he thought I was a boy racer chav scum, but I was in my own, at the age of 37, I'm a scientist for a pharmaceutical company, driving an Elise and hardly racing along a dual carriageway at 8pm .
As i said, i cant complain and I appreciate the discretion shown but why the attitude? What does he think it will achieve? All it's done is tempered my appreciation for the BiB dealing with the situation without dishing out points and fines with the feeling that some policeman are complete
s and should be avoided at any costs. And I mean not just avoided to escape punishment but also avoided when they need assistance as well.CommanderJameson said:
Remember folks, if you get a snotty bobby, get collar numbers and write a letter. By all accounts (PH BiB, care to confirm or deny?) the letters do carry weight. Phone calls and other contact, less so.
Just out of interest, how come there never seems to be enough sets of epualettes with your collar no on 
,or is it just a local phenomenom on the patches i work for epualettes to be displayed with no collar number on. Is it a diciplinary offence to not display number?I have the impression the OP did exceed the limit and didn’t get away with it because he chose to repeatedly blame the police for using full beam when the likelihood is that they weren’t. He said that he speeded up to get away from the headlights. He also walked away from the officer when he was trying to write out the ticket.
Hi all and thanks for the replies. In retrospect i should have kept an eye on them when i went past but as i didnt do anything wrong I didnt think about it.
Regarding my GF she hadnt spoken to the short cop prior to him saying i was going to get a ticket and to be fair it was because of her that the taller cop decided to go back and talk the short one out of giving me the ticket.
Regarding my GF she hadnt spoken to the short cop prior to him saying i was going to get a ticket and to be fair it was because of her that the taller cop decided to go back and talk the short one out of giving me the ticket.
The short cop didnt give me a chance to say anything regarding the full beams before saying "your talking your way into getting a ticket" which is why it seemed so unreasonable he didnt give me a verbal NIP and i didnt try to walk away. We were at the side of the road and i stood by the wall 2,3 yards away
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