Discussion
pulled last night, cop unfortunatly sounded rather pissed off like he had a bad night.
anyways, asked if i had a section 59 before, said no, he said right youve got one now, pull you again ill impound your car.
however, he did not give me any paper or anything to say i had one. how can i find out if i do. people ive talked to have been givin stop forms with a section 59 notice on them, so anyone know if i do have or not. or how can i check. and am i right in thinking it works on all my cars and bikes?
cheers
anyways, asked if i had a section 59 before, said no, he said right youve got one now, pull you again ill impound your car.
however, he did not give me any paper or anything to say i had one. how can i find out if i do. people ive talked to have been givin stop forms with a section 59 notice on them, so anyone know if i do have or not. or how can i check. and am i right in thinking it works on all my cars and bikes?
cheers
Plotloss said:
I think its just that car.
Sadly for you the handing out of Section 59 orders is entirely arbitary without recourse for appeal or objection. Its a power too far IMHO.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2002/ukpga_20020030_en_7#pt4-ch2-pb5-l1g59Sadly for you the handing out of Section 59 orders is entirely arbitary without recourse for appeal or objection. Its a power too far IMHO.
Bloody hell - that's a bit draconian. Basically if he thinks you're driving (or have been driving) like a t
t, he can warn you and then impound the car if you do it, or if he thinks you've done it again. Still, could be used on Saturday night in my local Tesco carpark with a fair amount of effect.It's the car. Not sure about the piece of paper or not, but I'd give it a week, see if anything turns up in the post.
If not, and IF you're giving us the full story (i.e. he made no attempt to explain to you what you'd done wrong (were you being a tw@t?)), then maybe go into the cop-shop and make a complaint. But that's a 2-edged sword...
If not, and IF you're giving us the full story (i.e. he made no attempt to explain to you what you'd done wrong (were you being a tw@t?)), then maybe go into the cop-shop and make a complaint. But that's a 2-edged sword...
Plotloss said:
Sadly for you the handing out of Section 59 orders is entirely arbitary without recourse for appeal or objection. Its a power too far IMHO.
Absolutely.Taken literally, the officer in question is not even required to witness the act which could result in a s.59 warning / seizure; they merely need to have 'reasonable grounds to believe..'
Whilst it could be argued that the intention of s.59 PRA 2002 is commendable, its poorly written, widely open to abuse and the absence of any recourse for a genuinely innocent party make it an odious piece of legislation, IMHO..
johnthan said:
i wasnt being a tw@t mate, never am when i pulled only makes things worse, even had a little chat with him and a laugh
will see if anythign comes in post
Don't think it will - my reading of Section 59 indicates that he canwill see if anythign comes in post
a) Stop you
b) Assuming warnings etc. etc, he can impound your car then and there
It's a statute concerning power polices, rather than legislation. You haven't broken a law per se.
Write to your MP and tell them what happened, and ask what he will do about it?
I suspect in theory that you have a right to a fair trial and a right to your possessions, which means that if anyone did have their car taken away as a result of a S59 notice it would be time to take it to court, then Europe to get the legislation removed.
I suspect in theory that you have a right to a fair trial and a right to your possessions, which means that if anyone did have their car taken away as a result of a S59 notice it would be time to take it to court, then Europe to get the legislation removed.
johnthan said:
the car wasnt takin away. i was giving the first section 59 warning, one more i get the car takin, or any car im in that aint mine, or my bike or my other car.
Yes I know, my point was if the vehicle is removed, then you (or anyone who has their property taken without a Court order, i.e. under a S59 notice) should take the action required to do something about it. You have rights (limited by the self serving scum in power).The original intention for this legislation was to hit off road bikes being dicks off road. The word BELIEF is used in the legislation for a reason, i.e. the officer must have quite a degree of 'proof' that the relevant circumstances have taken place.
It concerns me more about it being used when reported by a third party than directly be an officer. Either way, it's a serious power and a serious interference with the Human Rights Act. It needs to be used carefully.
It concerns me more about it being used when reported by a third party than directly be an officer. Either way, it's a serious power and a serious interference with the Human Rights Act. It needs to be used carefully.
sell the car to your wife, brother, mother, whatever.
get insured on the car again, drive saftley!
your first section 59 will not be transferred in the sale of the vehicle meaning your back on 0 section 59's for that vehicle.
the police on here might try and say that wont work, it will.
get insured on the car again, drive saftley!
your first section 59 will not be transferred in the sale of the vehicle meaning your back on 0 section 59's for that vehicle.
the police on here might try and say that wont work, it will.
DucatiGary said:
sell the car to your wife, brother, mother, whatever.
get insured on the car again, drive saftley!
your first section 59 will not be transferred in the sale of the vehicle meaning your back on 0 section 59's for that vehicle.
the police on here might try and say that wont work, it will.
Eh?get insured on the car again, drive saftley!
your first section 59 will not be transferred in the sale of the vehicle meaning your back on 0 section 59's for that vehicle.
the police on here might try and say that wont work, it will.
It applies to the driver and the vehicle. It makes no odds who owns the vehicle. You could get a S.59 warning in your car, I could lend you my car and if you get stopped and issued a second S.59 within 12 months whilst driving that, MY car gets seized on the spot!
JulianHJ said:
I could lend you my car and if you get stopped and issued a second S.59 within 12 months whilst driving that, MY car gets seized on the spot!
do you have a link for this?I cant see it tbh, sounds waaaayyyyy to far fetched.
what if the car was rented?
company car?
im not being funny but it wouldnt happen, you cant just go taking other peoples property without any questions, especially when the owner of the property had nothing to do with anything other than letting somone drive a car they own.
DucatiGary said:
JulianHJ said:
I could lend you my car and if you get stopped and issued a second S.59 within 12 months whilst driving that, MY car gets seized on the spot!
do you have a link for this?I cant see it tbh, sounds waaaayyyyy to far fetched.
what if the car was rented?
company car?
im not being funny but it wouldnt happen, you cant just go taking other peoples property without any questions, especially when the owner of the property had nothing to do with anything other than letting somone drive a car they own.
The owner's recourse is with the driver they lent it to, just as if it would be if the vehicle was damaged when it was in the possession of the person they lent it to.
In short don't lend your vehicle to anyone you believe may behave inappropriately in it.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 11th January 16:08
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