An unusual way of being caught speeding?
Discussion
My friend got caught speeding (50 in a 30) last night by a cop car going in the other direction whilst moving! This is a new one on me like, i thought i would just ask you guys if you heard of this before before i punted him in the direction of Pepipoo.
Seems a bit odd to me as they would have to be doing the exact speedlimit shirly?
Seems a bit odd to me as they would have to be doing the exact speedlimit shirly?
streaky said:
Sorry, but there's nothing unusual about it - Streaky
Indeed. Probably happens a lot as these cases almost never end up in court. He could fight it, he would have to go to court though. Police car picking the speed of a car in the opposite direction in the dark...? Probably wouldnt make the 50 stick, but the court would probably accept general exceeding the limit. Other way might be that the cannot prove the case.It means going to court anyway, and risking a higher penalty for 20 over the limit than 3 points and £60, and unless your mate is ready to do that, then its game over.
Who is Shirly anyway, is she a witness?
Edited by JustinP1 on Wednesday 16th January 16:17
How can they read the speed if they are on the move? Or is it a case of two officers having the opinion that excess speed was used, but not backup up by independent means, case closed?
They can not use any laser equipment from a moving vehicle, so I imagine it was just an estimate made up between two officers which acts then as the evidence. Would that mean then that a single officer could not make a speed estimate that would be acceptable without secondary opinion?
They can not use any laser equipment from a moving vehicle, so I imagine it was just an estimate made up between two officers which acts then as the evidence. Would that mean then that a single officer could not make a speed estimate that would be acceptable without secondary opinion?
streaky said:
Sorry, but there's nothing unusual about it - Streaky
Hmm, worth bearing in mind then.I don't know about 50 in a 30, but I know somebody who was doing 90-95 in an NSL 60 SC one evening, and then noticed that the last of three oncomers was a Traffic car. Nothing came of it though. I expect they just thought "Oh it's that pillock from Whitby - he's a lost cause, that one!"
Edited by p1esk on Wednesday 16th January 20:16
7db said:
JustinP1 said:
How many people are going to want to try and discount the 2 police officers evidence in court?
Ted should make a smiley just for you, Justin.I was actually serious though, not trying to link to my own experience.
I would say that these type of situations on SPL go the same way:
1) My friend (or me) feels hard done by, he feels he is innocent - or at least the bobbies are just guessing.
2) Yes, you are probably right. You will need to go to court and say A, B, C...
3) My anger has subsided now, I think I will just pay up and maybe even dislike the police from now on.
I would say only one in ten end up being ended with the cases being fought.
Pretty straighforward with Vascar.
Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
Soren2 said:
Pretty straighforward with Vascar.
Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
Well you learn something new every day!Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
Its a shame he was caught (again!) as he is already on 8 points with 3 coming off in March.Oh well i guess some people don't live and learn!
Soren2 said:
Pretty straighforward with Vascar.
Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
Huge margin for error, especially at night. But i suppose the court will regard it as gospel.Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
Soren2 said:
Pretty straighforward with Vascar.
Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
Thats very creative and quite correct, it is possible to get a speed reading in this way, but unless the distance measured is relatively large then the margin for error will be huge.Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
VASCAR can work reasonably well in a follow check because the operator can choose points that are not too far away for both the start and finish so parallax error can supposedly be minimised.
If we say for the sake of argument to reduce these errors to even an approximate level - that is to get to within 5-10mph they surely must be looking to measure distance over a tenth of a mile or at least 100m. Even then, it is very difficult to firstly pick a speeding car in a 30 zone say 150m away whilst driving towards them to give the operator a time to make an opinion of excess speed, and choose the mutual start/finish point and start the clock. Even if this point is now 100m away - looking 100m ahead in a 30 zone, is quite far and parallax error is huge.
...and in the dark...?
I just don't think it would be feasable for this particular situation, although useful to know nevertheless!
I think to be honest the OP's friend has gone past a police car noticably over the limit, they have done a u-turn and pulled a round figure from the air knowing that will be enough to make it stick 99% of the time.
JustinP1 said:
Soren2 said:
Pretty straighforward with Vascar.
Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
Thats very creative and quite correct, it is possible to get a speed reading in this way, but unless the distance measured is relatively large then the margin for error will be huge.Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
VASCAR can work reasonably well in a follow check because the operator can choose points that are not too far away for both the start and finish so parallax error can supposedly be minimised.
If we say for the sake of argument to reduce these errors to even an approximate level - that is to get to within 5-10mph they surely must be looking to measure distance over a tenth of a mile or at least 100m. Even then, it is very difficult to firstly pick a speeding car in a 30 zone say 150m away whilst driving towards them to give the operator a time to make an opinion of excess speed, and choose the mutual start/finish point and start the clock. Even if this point is now 100m away - looking 100m ahead in a 30 zone, is quite far and parallax error is huge.
...and in the dark...?
I just don't think it would be feasable for this particular situation, although useful to know nevertheless!
I think to be honest the OP's friend has gone past a police car noticably over the limit, they have done a u-turn and pulled a round figure from the air knowing that will be enough to make it stick 99% of the time.
I did suggest they rounded down to the nearest 5mph but alas no joy.
Pork_n_Beem said:
JustinP1 said:
Soren2 said:
Pretty straighforward with Vascar.
Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
Thats very creative and quite correct, it is possible to get a speed reading in this way, but unless the distance measured is relatively large then the margin for error will be huge.Your mates vehicle is seen coming towards the traffic car at speed. His vehicle passes a fixed point in the distance (bridge or similar) and the vascar operator switches 'time on' at that point. When your mate passes the patrol car, the operator presses 'time off' and 'distance on' at the same time. Then, when the police car passes the same fixed point he presses the 'distance off' switch. This way your mates car has recorded the time taken to travel the distance, and the patrol car has recorded the distance. The vascar then displays the speed. Round they go and catch your mate up, report for summons etc etc.
It can be done a few other ways, and while not particularly common it's a technique taught on Vascar courses.
VASCAR can work reasonably well in a follow check because the operator can choose points that are not too far away for both the start and finish so parallax error can supposedly be minimised.
If we say for the sake of argument to reduce these errors to even an approximate level - that is to get to within 5-10mph they surely must be looking to measure distance over a tenth of a mile or at least 100m. Even then, it is very difficult to firstly pick a speeding car in a 30 zone say 150m away whilst driving towards them to give the operator a time to make an opinion of excess speed, and choose the mutual start/finish point and start the clock. Even if this point is now 100m away - looking 100m ahead in a 30 zone, is quite far and parallax error is huge.
...and in the dark...?
I just don't think it would be feasable for this particular situation, although useful to know nevertheless!
I think to be honest the OP's friend has gone past a police car noticably over the limit, they have done a u-turn and pulled a round figure from the air knowing that will be enough to make it stick 99% of the time.
I did suggest they rounded down to the nearest 5mph but alas no joy.
For example, if the margin of error is +/- 2MPH then there is little point giving a figure accurate to two decimal places!
However, a figure to two decimal places does give at least the uninitiated the assumed information that the speed therefore must be correct to this very accurate figure and as such there is no margin of human error involved.
In fact, with VASCAR it is possible to literally 'create' any speed you wish, or at least with either conscious or subconscious 'leaning' on the timings affect the speed enough to make something 'borderline' to clear cut.
I heard 'off the record' that North Wales stopped using VASCAR for a while due to the amount of times the evidence was not enough to secure a conviction in court when challenged. I have also helped a PHer though email who defended himself from a VASCAR reading and the evidence was thrown out.
Edited by JustinP1 on Thursday 17th January 22:12
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff