The Law lets us down again!
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7195...
above said:
The Judicial Communications Office said magistrates had not been satisfied that a remand in custody was justified.
would he like to reconsider or just resign now?Sadly doesnt really matter what the Judiciary decide, the reason he wasnt placed on remand was quite simply there were not enough space in Prison for the little scrote. Quite simply Labour has singularly failed to invest in new Prisons, with the result that individuals such as this can violate Society with impunity, safe in the knowledge that the chances of actually being imprisoned are on a similar level to winning tomorrows Lottery.
The issue of his bail is irrelevant to this case. Granted, if he had been in custody this would not have happened. However, there was no direct link- It's not as if he was on bail for assaulting someone, and subsequently murdered them.
He was an evil scumbag. There are thousands of those roaming the country freely and, unfortunately, we can only deal with what is there at the time.
Surely the media can bring themselves to understand that it's actually not right or proper that someone should be held in custody, pending a community sentence?! Otherwise, it's them imprisoning someone wrongly.
For the record, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal and fully agree that current sentencing is weak. But that really isn't the issue here.
He was an evil scumbag. There are thousands of those roaming the country freely and, unfortunately, we can only deal with what is there at the time.
Surely the media can bring themselves to understand that it's actually not right or proper that someone should be held in custody, pending a community sentence?! Otherwise, it's them imprisoning someone wrongly.
For the record, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal and fully agree that current sentencing is weak. But that really isn't the issue here.
carrotchomper said:
The issue of his bail is irrelevant to this case. Granted, if he had been in custody this would not have happened. However, there was no direct link- It's not as if he was on bail for assaulting someone, and subsequently murdered them.
He was an evil scumbag. There are thousands of those roaming the country freely and, unfortunately, we can only deal with what is there at the time.
Surely the media can bring themselves to understand that it's actually not right or proper that someone should be held in custody, pending a community sentence?! Otherwise, it's them imprisoning someone wrongly.
For the record, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal and fully agree that current sentencing is weak. But that really isn't the issue here.
part of his sentence was that he was not allowed in Warrington.He was an evil scumbag. There are thousands of those roaming the country freely and, unfortunately, we can only deal with what is there at the time.
Surely the media can bring themselves to understand that it's actually not right or proper that someone should be held in custody, pending a community sentence?! Otherwise, it's them imprisoning someone wrongly.
For the record, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal and fully agree that current sentencing is weak. But that really isn't the issue here.
4 (iirc) hours later he commits murder in ( yes you guessed it) Warrington.
odyssey2200 said:
FishFace said:
According to The Times that incident was all the fault of the Police.
Not sure I agreePlod got him to the court
Unless his previous was not recorded the Judge
ed up IMHOEven if his priors were not on the record is that Plods job or the courts?
He was bailed for Assault - a minor offence, and certainly not one you would seek to imprison someone for pending a court case. Maggies don't have a crystal ball - all they can go on is what he's done in the past. And assault (i.e. punching someone) would not see you sent down. Yes, it's tragic, but with the benefit of hindsight, was it the right decision? Yes, it was.
We would need to double our prison capacity if we remanded all assault cases to prison.
We would need to double our prison capacity if we remanded all assault cases to prison.
A senior Judge Mr Ian Triggers has commented " that an obsession with rights had created a society bedevilled by feral youth" and attacked the policy of releasing violent offenders on bail.He wants to see proper punishments carried out.
I know nothing!!but it seems that there are so many differant ideas from differant courts nationwide, all giving THEIR interpretation of what they think is justice.Crown court Judges seem to have a differant idea and the Govt are on another planet.Mindblowing sums of taxpayers money is used for
a system that is unfit for purpose, but those who benefit most show no concern.
The population gave up any rights to take the law into their own hands, to support so called Justice!!!!! which is no longer given.Is it now time for the citizens to take back the law into their hands?.
I know nothing!!but it seems that there are so many differant ideas from differant courts nationwide, all giving THEIR interpretation of what they think is justice.Crown court Judges seem to have a differant idea and the Govt are on another planet.Mindblowing sums of taxpayers money is used for
a system that is unfit for purpose, but those who benefit most show no concern.
The population gave up any rights to take the law into their own hands, to support so called Justice!!!!! which is no longer given.Is it now time for the citizens to take back the law into their hands?.
RtdRacer said:
He was bailed for Assault - a minor offence, and certainly not one you would seek to imprison someone for pending a court case. Maggies don't have a crystal ball - all they can go on is what he's done in the past. And assault (i.e. punching someone) would not see you sent down. Yes, it's tragic, but with the benefit of hindsight, was it the right decision? Yes, it was.
We would need to double our prison capacity if we remanded all assault cases to prison.
Why not? We would need to double our prison capacity if we remanded all assault cases to prison.
As things stand the message being sent out is unless you are afraid of getting a criminal record you have nothing to fear if you assault someone.
Their is a rapidly evolving culture in this country where a degree of violence is not only tolerated but becoming accepted!
G51CAV said:
RtdRacer said:
He was bailed for Assault - a minor offence, and certainly not one you would seek to imprison someone for pending a court case. Maggies don't have a crystal ball - all they can go on is what he's done in the past. And assault (i.e. punching someone) would not see you sent down. Yes, it's tragic, but with the benefit of hindsight, was it the right decision? Yes, it was.
We would need to double our prison capacity if we remanded all assault cases to prison.
Why not? We would need to double our prison capacity if we remanded all assault cases to prison.
As things stand the message being sent out is unless you are afraid of getting a criminal record you have nothing to fear if you assault someone.
Their is a rapidly evolving culture in this country where a degree of violence is not only tolerated but becoming accepted!
RtdRacer said:
We would need to double our prison capacity if we remanded all assault cases to prison.
Agreed. However, much of the prison population is made up of the loopy and unfortunate. Since the closure of mental hospitals, those with problems have had nowhere else to go. When I was manning the front office a chap came in on Christmas eve after lunch to give himself up on a warrant. He had nowhere to go and wanted to be kept in over the long weekend, in warmth, comfort and with passable food. I told him to clear off and come back on the Tuesday morning. Out he went and, while I was dealing with the next customer, there was the sound of smashing glass and the alarm of the jewellers next door went off. He was brought in, charged and kept in for court. They let him out and two hours later he smashed another window.He was as loopy as they come but what else was there to do with him? Nobody cared.
When I was gaoler I kept a number of cells specifically for the loopy ones who would mess themselves, sing all night or just behave wierdly. When during a prison officers' 'work to rule' we took on their overflow, the ratio was normally about 60:40 for sane versus nutters. Give the sane ones their due, most would help the others get by but prison is not the place for them.
It is a cruel and barbaric way to treat those who are unable to cope.
We need to do what is done with every other public sector that becomes too expensive to upkeep.
Ship it out to India.
Anyone with more than two years to serve should be shipped out to a jail in India or some other country more than happy to look after our crims at a price that would be half what we pay for them here. and with a prison staff unlikely to allow prisoner indulgence there would be less people likely to want to end up back inside.
Ship it out to India.
Anyone with more than two years to serve should be shipped out to a jail in India or some other country more than happy to look after our crims at a price that would be half what we pay for them here. and with a prison staff unlikely to allow prisoner indulgence there would be less people likely to want to end up back inside.
FishFace said:
Because as RtdRacer says there simply are nowhere near enough prison places. You could build 4 x the prison places and the Police would fill them in less than a year. Easily.
Ok, so minor assault/yob type scum can be placed in stocks in the town squares and whipped on a daily basis for a week. That I think would cut re-offending. Derek Smith said:
RtdRacer said:
We would need to double our prison capacity if we remanded all assault cases to prison.
Agreed. However, much of the prison population is made up of the loopy and unfortunate. Since the closure of mental hospitals, those with problems have had nowhere else to go. When I was manning the front office a chap came in on Christmas eve after lunch to give himself up on a warrant. He had nowhere to go and wanted to be kept in over the long weekend, in warmth, comfort and with passable food. I told him to clear off and come back on the Tuesday morning. Out he went and, while I was dealing with the next customer, there was the sound of smashing glass and the alarm of the jewellers next door went off. He was brought in, charged and kept in for court. They let him out and two hours later he smashed another window.He was as loopy as they come but what else was there to do with him? Nobody cared.
When I was gaoler I kept a number of cells specifically for the loopy ones who would mess themselves, sing all night or just behave wierdly. When during a prison officers' 'work to rule' we took on their overflow, the ratio was normally about 60:40 for sane versus nutters. Give the sane ones their due, most would help the others get by but prison is not the place for them.
It is a cruel and barbaric way to treat those who are unable to cope.
Memories.
'I have just smashed the window of the dole office so you will lock me up'
'Take a seat I'll deal with you later'
They're everywhere!
FishFace said:
G51CAV said:
RtdRacer said:
He was bailed for Assault - a minor offence, and certainly not one you would seek to imprison someone for pending a court case. Maggies don't have a crystal ball - all they can go on is what he's done in the past. And assault (i.e. punching someone) would not see you sent down. Yes, it's tragic, but with the benefit of hindsight, was it the right decision? Yes, it was.
We would need to double our prison capacity if we remanded all assault cases to prison.
Why not? We would need to double our prison capacity if we remanded all assault cases to prison.
As things stand the message being sent out is unless you are afraid of getting a criminal record you have nothing to fear if you assault someone.
Their is a rapidly evolving culture in this country where a degree of violence is not only tolerated but becoming accepted!
or do we start to limit the number of criminals we hunt based up the capacity to imprison them?
Do we have a weekly report of how many are being freed and set out to seek their replacement?
NO
If a crime is worthy of a custodial sentence then thats what it should get.
Perhaps we should buy some old north sea oil rigs and convert them to Prisons.
Should be few escapes from a prison 100 miles off shore.
FishFace said:
You could build 4 x the prison places and the Police would fill them in less than a year. Easily.
yeah but that would be for victimless crimes like speeding and leaving your car running whilst unnatended.
or doing as you where told (in the case of the 18 year old in the civic on TV the other night)
thats like me saying if I had all the cheap computer components in the world, id sell more than anyone else.
of course i would, bit of a dumb answer though if you ask me.
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