Police ambush

[AndySmee]

My partner was stopped this evening by a policeman with a gun in a position where the signing for the 30 zone is not very good. Basically you leave a dual carriageway and enter a 30 zone before dropping down a hill. Only at the bottom of the hill is the area residential, and this is where the police were stopping people, over and over, everyone comes down the hill too fast. There are no repeat 30 signs and neither my partner nor the passengers saw the sign. It seems that they are trying to use 3 points to educate people rather than improving the signing or road conditions to slow people down naturally.

Is there any defence against this kind of ambush where they know the signing is poor? they will have pulled tens of people this evening and achieved very little other than £60 from my partner who was visiting as a one off and will not be returning to the area.

Cheers.

[joewilliams]

Does the signing comply with the legal requirements?

[vonhosen]

AndySmee said:

My partner was stopped this evening by a policeman with a gun in a position where the signing for the 30 zone is not very good. Basically you leave a dual carriageway and enter a 30 zone before dropping down a hill. Only at the bottom of the hill is the area residential, and this is where the police were stopping people, over and over, everyone comes down the hill too fast. There are no repeat 30 signs and neither my partner nor the passengers saw the sign. It seems that they are trying to use 3 points to educate people rather than improving the signing or road conditions to slow people down naturally.

Is there any defence against this kind of ambush where they know the signing is poor? they will have pulled tens of people this evening and achieved very little other than £60 from my partner who was visiting as a one off and will not be returning to the area.

Cheers.

You seen to be expecting repeaters in the 30's.
There won't be any if there is a system of street lights, they define the limit.
You'll just get the signs at the start of the limit, they of course should be visible.

[JustinP1]

vonhosen said:

AndySmee said:

My partner was stopped this evening by a policeman with a gun in a position where the signing for the 30 zone is not very good. Basically you leave a dual carriageway and enter a 30 zone before dropping down a hill. Only at the bottom of the hill is the area residential, and this is where the police were stopping people, over and over, everyone comes down the hill too fast. There are no repeat 30 signs and neither my partner nor the passengers saw the sign. It seems that they are trying to use 3 points to educate people rather than improving the signing or road conditions to slow people down naturally.

Is there any defence against this kind of ambush where they know the signing is poor? they will have pulled tens of people this evening and achieved very little other than £60 from my partner who was visiting as a one off and will not be returning to the area.

Cheers.

You seen to be expecting repeaters in the 30's.
There won't be any if there is a system of street lights, they define the limit.
You'll just get the signs at the start of the limit, they of course should be visible.

As Von says, you will only get one set of signs. That is two 30 signs, one either side of the road.

The stop there not because they are saving lives, but because that is where they will be most efficient in *their* terms, that is, catch the most amount of people.

[Funky Teapot]

AndySmee said:

My partner was stopped this evening by a policeman with a gun in a position where the signing for the 30 zone is not very good. Basically you leave a dual carriageway and enter a 30 zone before dropping down a hill. Only at the bottom of the hill is the area residential, and this is where the police were stopping people, over and over, everyone comes down the hill too fast. There are no repeat 30 signs and neither my partner nor the passengers saw the sign. It seems that they are trying to use 3 points to educate people rather than improving the signing or road conditions to slow people down naturally.

Is there any defence against this kind of ambush where they know the signing is poor? they will have pulled tens of people this evening and achieved very little other than £60 from my partner who was visiting as a one off and will not be returning to the area.

Cheers.

So, there is correct signage when entering the 30 zone, people "forget" they are in a 30 zone.... yet, somehow it's the polices fault when the said speeder gets done for speeding, not the fault of the person who's actually speeding !!!

Do you want the police to come round and wipe peoples arses too? seeing as it appears some people can't look after themselves

[philbes]

Funky Teapot said:

AndySmee said:

My partner was stopped this evening by a policeman with a gun in a position where the signing for the 30 zone is not very good. Basically you leave a dual carriageway and enter a 30 zone before dropping down a hill. Only at the bottom of the hill is the area residential, and this is where the police were stopping people, over and over, everyone comes down the hill too fast. There are no repeat 30 signs and neither my partner nor the passengers saw the sign. It seems that they are trying to use 3 points to educate people rather than improving the signing or road conditions to slow people down naturally.

Is there any defence against this kind of ambush where they know the signing is poor? they will have pulled tens of people this evening and achieved very little other than £60 from my partner who was visiting as a one off and will not be returning to the area.

Cheers.

So, there is correct signage when entering the 30 zone, people "forget" they are in a 30 zone.... yet, somehow it's the polices fault when the said speeder gets done for speeding, not the fault of the person who's actually speeding !!!

Do you want the police to come round and wipe peoples arses too? seeing as it appears some people can't look after themselves

Well, you certainly have a way with words! 46 posts and your main aim seems to be insulting people.

[Funky Teapot]

philbes said:

Funky Teapot said:

AndySmee said:

My partner was stopped this evening by a policeman with a gun in a position where the signing for the 30 zone is not very good. Basically you leave a dual carriageway and enter a 30 zone before dropping down a hill. Only at the bottom of the hill is the area residential, and this is where the police were stopping people, over and over, everyone comes down the hill too fast. There are no repeat 30 signs and neither my partner nor the passengers saw the sign. It seems that they are trying to use 3 points to educate people rather than improving the signing or road conditions to slow people down naturally.

Is there any defence against this kind of ambush where they know the signing is poor? they will have pulled tens of people this evening and achieved very little other than £60 from my partner who was visiting as a one off and will not be returning to the area.

Cheers.

So, there is correct signage when entering the 30 zone, people "forget" they are in a 30 zone.... yet, somehow it's the polices fault when the said speeder gets done for speeding, not the fault of the person who's actually speeding !!!

Do you want the police to come round and wipe peoples arses too? seeing as it appears some people can't look after themselves

Well, you certainly have a way with words! 46 posts and your main aim seems to be insulting people.

wrong my main aim is to say a few home truths about how stupid some members of the general public are

[flemke]

vonhosen said:

AndySmee said:

My partner was stopped this evening by a policeman with a gun in a position where the signing for the 30 zone is not very good. Basically you leave a dual carriageway and enter a 30 zone before dropping down a hill. Only at the bottom of the hill is the area residential, and this is where the police were stopping people, over and over, everyone comes down the hill too fast. There are no repeat 30 signs and neither my partner nor the passengers saw the sign. It seems that they are trying to use 3 points to educate people rather than improving the signing or road conditions to slow people down naturally.

Is there any defence against this kind of ambush where they know the signing is poor? they will have pulled tens of people this evening and achieved very little other than £60 from my partner who was visiting as a one off and will not be returning to the area.

Cheers.

You seen to be expecting repeaters in the 30's.
There won't be any if there is a system of street lights, they define the limit.
You'll just get the signs at the start of the limit, they of course should be visible.

However...
if there is no system of street lights, then the 30 limit is not enforceable without repeater signs.
Wouldn't be exactly the first time that the police have set up a speed trap at a site where the limit was not enforceable because its signage was seriously defective.

[GPSHead]

Funky Teapot said:

philbes said:

Funky Teapot said:

AndySmee said:

My partner was stopped this evening by a policeman with a gun in a position where the signing for the 30 zone is not very good. Basically you leave a dual carriageway and enter a 30 zone before dropping down a hill. Only at the bottom of the hill is the area residential, and this is where the police were stopping people, over and over, everyone comes down the hill too fast. There are no repeat 30 signs and neither my partner nor the passengers saw the sign. It seems that they are trying to use 3 points to educate people rather than improving the signing or road conditions to slow people down naturally.

Is there any defence against this kind of ambush where they know the signing is poor? they will have pulled tens of people this evening and achieved very little other than £60 from my partner who was visiting as a one off and will not be returning to the area.

Cheers.

So, there is correct signage when entering the 30 zone, people "forget" they are in a 30 zone.... yet, somehow it's the polices fault when the said speeder gets done for speeding, not the fault of the person who's actually speeding !!!

Do you want the police to come round and wipe peoples arses too? seeing as it appears some people can't look after themselves

Well, you certainly have a way with words! 46 posts and your main aim seems to be insulting people.

wrong my main aim is to say a few home truths about how stupid some members of the general public are

Like those who insist on supporting speed cameras despite the evidence, because "slower is safer" and they don't have the intellect to think about the subject any more deeply than that?

[rewc]

The Police are hardly likely to target an area where there will be only one transgresser an hour or so. They know that at this location a large percentage of the drivers are exceeding the limit. The propably also have a good understanding of why this is the case - poor signage , the road appears to any reasonable driver to be safe at a higher speed than that posted etc. They have obviously decided that Enforcement is more important, at this location, than Education or Engineering.
It may not be required by law to have 30mph repeaters where there is road lighting but sensible councils do place a combined 30mph/speed camera sign to aid motorists in keeping within the limit at known problem sites.

I suspect there are similar locations within all counties that the Police are aware of and are used for meeting targets without too much effort.

[Fort Jefferson]

AndySmee said:

My partner was stopped this evening by a policeman with a gun .

I was once stopped by two Policemen with guns. They were Heckler and Koch MP5s. I'd just turned into a cul de sac in a suberb of Nottingham to do a call. I though, f**k me, I wish my neighbourhood watch was as good as this.

It turned out I was going to Geoff Hoon's neighbour, and it was while the first Iraq war was on.

[Vaux]

Fort Jefferson said:

I thought, f**k me, I wish my neighbourhood watch was as good as this.

[Funky Teapot]

rewc said:

The Police are hardly likely to target an area where there will be only one transgresser an hour or so. They know that at this location a large percentage of the drivers are exceeding the limit. The propably also have a good understanding of why this is the case - poor signage , the road appears to any reasonable driver to be safe at a higher speed than that posted etc. They have obviously decided that Enforcement is more important, at this location, than Education or Engineering.
It may not be required by law to have 30mph repeaters where there is road lighting but sensible councils do place a combined 30mph/speed camera sign to aid motorists in keeping within the limit at known problem sites.

I suspect there are similar locations within all counties that the Police are aware of and are used for meeting targets without too much effort.

let me ask you this.... what's more likely to stop somebody speeding in the future? a polite word in somebodys ear that they are going too fast, or a £60 fine and 3 points on your licence? I suspect more people are going to take note of something that'll cost them financially than just a polite word... so, prosecting people for breaking the law is going to be more effective at obtaining the desiard effect

[rewc]

Funky Teapot said:

rewc said:

The Police are hardly likely to target an area where there will be only one transgresser an hour or so. They know that at this location a large percentage of the drivers are exceeding the limit. The propably also have a good understanding of why this is the case - poor signage , the road appears to any reasonable driver to be safe at a higher speed than that posted etc. They have obviously decided that Enforcement is more important, at this location, than Education or Engineering.
It may not be required by law to have 30mph repeaters where there is road lighting but sensible councils do place a combined 30mph/speed camera sign to aid motorists in keeping within the limit at known problem sites.

I suspect there are similar locations within all counties that the Police are aware of and are used for meeting targets without too much effort.

let me ask you this.... what's more likely to stop somebody speeding in the future? a polite word in somebodys ear that they are going too fast, or a £60 fine and 3 points on your licence? I suspect more people are going to take note of something that'll cost them financially than just a polite word... so, prosecting people for breaking the law is going to be more effective at obtaining the desiard effect

If the intention is to stop drivers speeding at this particular location then Engineering to deal with the underlying cause is the answer. If the point of the enforcement is safety, as opposed to money generation there is not much point in prosecuting a particular driver at a particular location if there is an underlying problem at the site. If a driver who has 9 points on his licence, and in spite of driving diligently, is caught out by a particular location then the problem at the location should be sorted out.

I still stick by my final comment "I suspect there are similar locations within all counties that the Police are aware of and are used for meeting targets without too much effort".

[Funky Teapot]

So....

you're happy for more and more roads to be "ruined" by road calming measures, than for the roads to be left alone and people be prosectued for driving too fast on them?

Personally, I'd like the roads to be left alone because I like driving... I don't want my enjoyment ruined because of the actions of other people, but hey... maybe you'd rather pay the price yourself and have roads ruined because others can't obey speed limits ???

[Funky Teapot]

GPSHead said:

Funky Teapot said:

philbes said:

Funky Teapot said:

AndySmee said:

My partner was stopped this evening by a policeman with a gun in a position where the signing for the 30 zone is not very good. Basically you leave a dual carriageway and enter a 30 zone before dropping down a hill. Only at the bottom of the hill is the area residential, and this is where the police were stopping people, over and over, everyone comes down the hill too fast. There are no repeat 30 signs and neither my partner nor the passengers saw the sign. It seems that they are trying to use 3 points to educate people rather than improving the signing or road conditions to slow people down naturally.

Is there any defence against this kind of ambush where they know the signing is poor? they will have pulled tens of people this evening and achieved very little other than £60 from my partner who was visiting as a one off and will not be returning to the area.

Cheers.

So, there is correct signage when entering the 30 zone, people "forget" they are in a 30 zone.... yet, somehow it's the polices fault when the said speeder gets done for speeding, not the fault of the person who's actually speeding !!!

Do you want the police to come round and wipe peoples arses too? seeing as it appears some people can't look after themselves

Well, you certainly have a way with words! 46 posts and your main aim seems to be insulting people.

wrong my main aim is to say a few home truths about how stupid some members of the general public are

Like those who insist on supporting speed cameras despite the evidence, because "slower is safer" and they don't have the intellect to think about the subject any more deeply than that?

Not everybody who speeds will kill, but some people will kill because they are driving too fast over the speed limit... it's those innocent lives that speed limits try and save

[rewc]

Funky Teapot said:

So....

you're happy for more and more roads to be "ruined" by road calming measures, than for the roads to be left alone and people be prosectued for driving too fast on them?

Response: I never mentioned road calming at all, I just said Enginnering e.g. some "repeater signs". Are you saying that all the enginnering measures that have been implemented as part of the casualty reduction plan have "ruined" the roads?


Personally, I'd like the roads to be left alone because I like driving... I don't want my enjoyment ruined because of the actions of other people, but hey... maybe you'd rather pay the price yourself and have roads ruined because others can't obey speed limits ???

Response: If there is a safety concern that can be reduced or removed completely by some change to the road layout then so be it , sorry if it interferes with your play ground. You appear happy to prosecute drivers who exceed the limit for whatever reason whilst I think most prosecutions are a failure of the safety strategy. We will just have to differ - you are entitled to your view as I am to mine.

[AndySmee]

My partner didn't think she was speeding as she thought it was a 40 zone. The officer explained that there was a 30 sign clearly illuminated before you drop over the hill.

Seriously, what is the point of that? My partner is not a fast driver, she has had a clean license for 15 years and uses her car for work. She honestly thought that the road conditions and surroundings would mean it was a 40 zone, and there was no repeaters or road furniture to give any other clues

[Captain Volvo]

If there were no repeaters and no street lamps then then there may be a defence but if there were 2 30mph signs at the beginning and street lamps the correct distance apart (I forget what it is) then the street furniture is indicating that the limit is other than 40mph.

[Prof Beard]

AndySmee said:

My partner didn't think she was speeding as she thought it was a 40 zone. The officer explained that there was a 30 sign clearly illuminated before you drop over the hill.

Seriously, what is the point of that? My partner is not a fast driver, she has had a clean license for 15 years and uses her car for work. She honestly thought that the road conditions and surroundings would mean it was a 40 zone, and there was no repeaters or road furniture to give any other clues

WAS there a system of street lighting?