Speed Awareness Workshops - attended?

[Adam B]

Got flashed by a scamera and sure enough I got the dreaded letter.

Usual story - empty street, 1am, good visibility (well lit), fine weather, alert driver, well-maintained car, sober, not on drugs - but made the stupid mistake of being a law-abiding taxpayer, insuring and taxing my car. Therefore I am a dangerrous criminal and must be punished.

Anyway 39 in a 30 went through amber light and thought that particular scamera was red-light not speed. Fair cop and totally my fault for concentrating on road, possible hazards and appropriate speed and not speed cameras.

Now have an invitation to an awareness course which I was initially pleased about (currently no points on licence and want to kepp it that way, not so bothered about a fine).

I have heard this are teeth-grindingly patronising and irritating.

Has anyone been on one? What is format/content? Do you learn anything? If I attend and express my view on what a wonderful idea speed cameras are or try reasoned logic can they "fail" me? The notes are vague on this point, ther is no pass/fail test but you must attend the entire workshop and "leave with an improved attitude and ability"

I assume this means suck it in and take whatever BS comes you way?

[carrotchomper]

I would think that going through an amber light at an indicated speed well over the limit is a decent hazard {/tinhat}

[Adam B]

carrotchomper said:

I would think that going through an amber light at an indicated speed well over the limit is a decent hazard {/tinhat}

I would think you had to be there - it was not a crossroads but a two lane road with a highly visible junction to the left, no traffic queued in any direction, no pedestrians

Are you one of the instructors on the awarenesss course? maybe I'll just take the points after all!

Edited by Adam B on Saturday 26th January 12:40

[andygo]

My wife went on one a few years back. Got some smelly old fart who wanted to stop for a cuppa evry 5 minutes.

She didn't really need to go on a speed awareness course as she knows all about speed having done a fair bit of co driving on tarmac stage rallies.

Dead boring, but less boring than having points!

[lost in espace]

Did one last weekend. Tedious. More expensive than points. Never had any points in 20 years, but chance are if I took the points I would have got another set next week.

TBH it was a wasted opportunity really, the instructors had lots of experience and were ADI's and one even sat on the ADI board. I wish I could have gone out with one of them for an hour would have been far better than being told 70% twaddle.

Main points I learned were regarding observation and stopping distances, particularly that most of the actual stopping is done at the end of braking so speeding a wee bit more means you hit a pedestrian a lot faster.

I got caught in a 30 at 35 downhill when I was rushing to pick up the kids, but I would say 90% of the time stick rigidly to the limits and use the cruise. Might go on an advanced driving course though.

[Mad Moggie2]

Quite a few around here fell victim to the forests of scams down in neighbouring LanCASH££££re.

Cut off is better than it used to be.

Once upon a time - some of the villagers here got pinged on the A6 Lancaster area - just past the M6 Carnforth roundabout .. at 34 mph. Three chaps who work for Wildy's firm also got pinged at similar speeds and a colleague of mine got pinged at 34 mph by the cam near the hospital where he worked. He was clled back to a patient who had a setback after surgery. (He challenged the invite to the court and they actually cancelled this ticket They all got invites to this course.


After numerous complaints Lancs began to offer across whole speed limit range at 10%+5 - so you are lucky to be offered at 9 mph above in real terms.

The course? We do have the assessment mark sheet from previous victims who said it was actually better than they thought - with just a passing comment on the "dogmatic drivel" with the rest emphasising COAST Per the assess sheet we have - and I think we did post iup copy in the past -

They mark this per COAST skills demonstrated on Scale of 1-5 with 1 being "excellent" and 5 being "a bit dire". S[eed - ironically - only has a fleeting reference in the small print on this mark sheet.

But depends on the Pratnership None of them apply a standard across the country and it does not make for good justice with such varied criteria for the courses - which are also not offered by all There's also the daftenss of varied tolerances whereby 36 mph will not get a NIP in some areas - but will in others. It thus becomes hapahazard - lethally flawed in that speed cam policy as a road safety enforecement measure fails to deliver anything of merit to justify replacing BiB s with Gatso efforts

Apart from that - a decently, professionally trained fair minded BiB should be able to tell if the driver warrants a speed fine or just a refresher course.

[falcemob]

I've got one on Wednesday, I'll let you know what it's like.

[Mad Moggie2]

The mark sheet for this course.


Er .. I got the marks the wrong way around


Note it marks on "USE OF SPEED ON APPROACH TO HAZARDS

with other relating to "handling and being able to stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear. opcorn:

It has been criticised by BRAKE by the way for not suggesting "speed kills" in local Lancs paper.

[falcemob]

Adam B said:

Anyway 39 in a 30 went through amber light and thought that particular scamera was red-light not speed. Fair cop and totally my fault for concentrating on road, possible hazards and appropriate speed and not speed cameras.

I see you are in London, where is this traffic light camera that also does speed?

Mad Moggie, I assume you had to go out on a drive, in London it's all classroom with an assessment but no pass/fail unless you are totally outrageous in your attitude.

[Rich 36]

falcemob said:

I've got one on Wednesday, I'll let you know what it's like.

Somebody suggested

Full face/Nomex/gloves

See what sort of response or mark,

Would you mind er, testing the water so to speak,
Prior to mine in March!

[falcemob]

Rich 36 said:

falcemob said:

I've got one on Wednesday, I'll let you know what it's like.

Somebody suggested

Full face/Nomex/gloves

See what sort of response or mark,

Would you mind er, testing the water so to speak,
Prior to mine in March!

I'll post a report on Weds eve.

[Mad Moggie2]

falcemob said:

Adam B said:

Anyway 39 in a 30 went through amber light and thought that particular scamera was red-light not speed. Fair cop and totally my fault for concentrating on road, possible hazards and appropriate speed and not speed cameras.

I see you are in London, where is this traffic light camera that also does speed?

Mad Moggie, I assume you had to go out on a drive, in London it's all classroom with an assessment but no pass/fail unless you are totally outrageous in your attitude.

Not ever been pinged - but we know of so many who have down in Kodak County.

Like typical "felines" - curious and we wanted to find out more about this given the ridiculous invite NIPS of 33-35 mph as was the case when they set up this course We got hold of above form from one of the invitees and its function was to prove to some lycra louts that COAST does have some kind of "peer reviewed" stamp to it For some reason "peer review by some intellectual in an educational ivory tower in lah-lah land and not in the harder down to earth real world" seems to matter to them

Lancs/Staffs follow identical format from what we gather from those we know invited so far and FOI on them. Per an FOI =- they claim "95% of their victims never re-offend" - but given the low PING speeds anyway - our argument was that they were targetting easy prey for easy money. They since revamped to up to cut off over the entire speed limit range of 10% + 5 and just send out a "warning - naughty naughty" letter to the 10% +2s these days - per latest "intelligence from down our pub" (which is usualy more accurate than anything you read in the papers )

But yes.. format of this course seems to be 3 hours in the classrom and 3 hours or so driving around afterwards with an ADI.

Like all the rest - no pass/fail unless bolshy in attitude or "downright dangerous" (none heard of... )

But your post reflects the difference and inconsistency of current "road safety politics and "equitable justice""


At £110 per invitee current price as I understand ) - the Lancs cours ain't exactly cheap .. but as one critic said "about the closest some get to an IAM observation"

By the way - some traffic light cams are looking like they also "do speed". Noted a couple of "Redspeed/Monitron" types around the NorthWest - including A580 Manchester {per my sisters and brother who live down there) - which now have traditional Gatso speed markers over the junction.

We note they almost always seem to be this type of scammer.. and there are usually the tell tale lines in most cases seen so far.

Good luck on the course. It will be interesting to see how it compares with this Northern version and how far a rip off plus lip service by comparison.

[ginettag27]

I just had one last week.

I know of others who have been on them and thought that they were patronising... This one was good imo. It was given by a former Police Driver, who had driven at their highest level and had also been a motorcycle cop as well.. Knew his stuff.

Mine was in Upper Heyford, just off Junction 9 of the M40..

The first 45 mins was an interactive click and point presentation. With about 10 questions to get your demographic.. and then questions interspersed with video bits and bobs. The questions gauged your driving "habits" shall we say and attitude towards driving. The video clips were to try and "mark you" on your driving skill, speed awareness - you get shown a short clip and then are asked if you would drive -20 -15 -10 -5 0 +5 +10 +15 +20 mph different to the speed that the person has driven at.. We got about 10-12 of those.. Then there was a click when you see a hazard number of videos.. They were quite interesting!! Although some of the vid was a little blurry.. Actually the first vid was you approaching behind another vehicle, in a number of situations, where you had to click when you felt you reached your normal following distance.. Quite interesting and definitely very good.

A real mix of people in the class, a couple of younger people, 20s.. Quite a few around the 30 mark (I think!) and top heavy towards older drivers..

A 15 minute break..

The really interesting bits were after the break...

1) vid showing staged (as in on an airfield) braking.. Showing that if a driver brakes at the same point travelling at 30, 32, 25 and 40.. What the impact does, if they hit a cardboard cut-out... 30 they stopped in time. 32 just tipped them over and so on...

2) They asked what the speed limit was on a single carriageway with National Speed Limit sign and then also on a dual carriageway with a National Speed Limit sign.. It was interesting to hear the varying (!) replies!!! I kid you not.

3) vid showing similar braking, but at 70, 80, 90, 100... If the car could stop at 70MPH and avoid an accident.. and you drove at 100MPH it would have impacted a car ahead at 71MPH...

All in all it was a bit of a grind, but good to go to and also talk about the figures involved, percentage of accidents, between rural, town and motorways and then the percentage of casualties.. All too often it's "easy" to just "go with the flow" but there can be (of course) real consequences.

I think I got a 5-6 page "report" based on my answers..

With his level of experience the person who took the class knew what he was talking about. It wasn't patronising, but I have heard about those that can be, I guess it depends on the content, structure and "lecturer"..

It's all anonymous... Although they do keep a register of people - as you can only take one every 3 years..


Better than 3 points, although alledgedly some insurers are starting to ask if you've been on one of the courses... Hmmm...

[Clarkey boy]

I have had the priveledge of doing 2 in the last 5 years, both in Lancashire. They both involved lectures followed by an assesed drive with an ADI instructor which was more about how to drive as per test passing today than with speed. The really frightening part was the attitude of some of the other drivers, mainly the older ones( and I wont be troubling 45 again) as they nearly all felt they had been greatly wronged. And the driving standards of some of the younger drivers, they were just seriously awful, not speed but basics such as spacial awareness,knowing what basic signs meant and being aware of how other road users could react. On the plus side it was a day off work,(didnt tell the boss) and kept 6 points off for a little while at least.

[Rich 36]

Yes and I'm throwing a sickie as well.
Mines a paltry £170 for a day and half.

Just need to keep my gob shut, play nice, it'll be a breeze

[Bing o]

ginettag27 said:

2) They asked what the speed limit was on a single carriageway with National Speed Limit sign and then also on a dual carriageway with a National Speed Limit sign.. It was interesting to hear the varying (!) replies!!! I kid you not.

SC is 43.8 with a tissue box on the parcelshelf.

DC is invariably within 30mph of the actual limit, preferably in the right hand lane.

Do I pass?

[ginettag27]

Bing o said:

Do I pass?

Actually there's no pass or fail, you simply have to turn up on time and attend the whole thing.

[falcemob]

I have just come home from my course, exactly the same as ginettag27s' so I have just quoted his version.
I found it quite informative, not boring although it didn't tell me anything about myself I didn't already know.
I did find the stopping distances bit quite an eye opener though.
One question they ask you at the end is will it make any difference to your speed or how much you speed. I had to answer "none at all" as I generally try not to speed anyway, just got caught on the occasion I wasn't paying 100% attention.

ginettag27 said:

The first 45 mins was an interactive click and point presentation. With about 10 questions to get your demographic.. and then questions interspersed with video bits and bobs. The questions gauged your driving "habits" shall we say and attitude towards driving. The video clips were to try and "mark you" on your driving skill, speed awareness - you get shown a short clip and then are asked if you would drive -20 -15 -10 -5 0 +5 +10 +15 +20 mph different to the speed that the person has driven at.. We got about 10-12 of those.. Then there was a click when you see a hazard number of videos.. They were quite interesting!! Although some of the vid was a little blurry.. Actually the first vid was you approaching behind another vehicle, in a number of situations, where you had to click when you felt you reached your normal following distance.. Quite interesting and definitely very good.

A real mix of people in the class, a couple of younger people, 20s.. Quite a few around the 30 mark (I think!) and top heavy towards older drivers..

A 15 minute break..

The really interesting bits were after the break...

1) vid showing staged (as in on an airfield) braking.. Showing that if a driver brakes at the same point travelling at 30, 32, 25 and 40.. What the impact does, if they hit a cardboard cut-out... 30 they stopped in time. 32 just tipped them over and so on...

2) They asked what the speed limit was on a single carriageway with National Speed Limit sign and then also on a dual carriageway with a National Speed Limit sign.. It was interesting to hear the varying (!) replies!!! I kid you not.

3) vid showing similar braking, but at 70, 80, 90, 100... If the car could stop at 70MPH and avoid an accident.. and you drove at 100MPH it would have impacted a car ahead at 71MPH...

...............good to go to and also talk about the figures involved, percentage of accidents, between rural, town and motorways and then the percentage of casualties.. All too often it's "easy" to just "go with the flow" but there can be (of course) real consequences.

I think I got a 5-6 page "report" based on my answers..

With his level of experience the person who took the class knew what he was talking about. It wasn't patronising, but I have heard about those that can be, I guess it depends on the content, structure and "lecturer"..

It's all anonymous...

[Rich 36]

Interesting,

Did they ask you for your licence out of interest,
Insurers have lost mine by looks of it.

Also I almost expected a referrence to group therapy and point & laugh session,

Good anyway

[falcemob]

Rich 36 said:

Interesting,

Did they ask you for your licence out of interest,
Insurers have lost mine by looks of it.

Any form of photo ID will do.