Cat D - owner must advise?
Discussion
Just curious really as to whether or not the seller of a Cat D car is required to disclose the fact to a buyer as MiL is looking to buy one she likes BUT the owner didn't mention any such thing in the ad or during the meeting. She really likes the car BUT it's at market value. I would imagine that a Cat D would be along the same lines as when you cover up damage in a house deliberately - you are liable, but wondered if anyone actually knew the full answer.
Cheers
Jas
Cheers
Jas
Jasandjules said:
Just curious really as to whether or not the seller of a Cat D car is required to disclose the fact to a buyer as MiL is looking to buy one she likes BUT the owner didn't mention any such thing in the ad or during the meeting. She really likes the car BUT it's at market value. I would imagine that a Cat D would be along the same lines as when you cover up damage in a house deliberately - you are liable, but wondered if anyone actually knew the full answer.
Cheers
Jas
buyer beware if a private sale ,is it a cat d or is this a hypothetical question ?Cheers
Jas
Jasandjules said:
Just curious really as to whether or not the seller of a Cat D car is required to disclose the fact to a buyer as MiL is looking to buy one she likes BUT the owner didn't mention any such thing in the ad or during the meeting. She really likes the car BUT it's at market value. I would imagine that a Cat D would be along the same lines as when you cover up damage in a house deliberately - you are liable, but wondered if anyone actually knew the full answer.
Cheers
Jas
No legal requirement to disclose, especially from a private seller, unless specifically asked. Just the same as any other "defect".Cheers
Jas
I am not aware that covering up damage in a house is a problem either. It is again only an issue if the seller lies in answer to a direct question.
Caveat emptor still rules.
bimsb6 said:
buyer beware if a private sale ,is it a cat d or is this a hypothetical question ?
Yes, I thought that was the case but just wanted to double check. She found one she really wants, but it's a Cat D (we've come home and HPI'd it).
And if you hide a defect in the house you can be made to pay for the repairs, it's a fairly old bit of case law in house sales, i.e. people who cover over damp patches by painting the room etc.. I was kind of hoping there was something similar in car sales which I wasn't aware of.
What I should have got her to do was ask the seller if it had been in any accidents etc.. but too late now.
SUPERCAR1 said:
walk away and buy another.....simple really
Yes it would be if she hadn't put down a deposit. So now I'm in the position of being the person obligated to get it back for her. So I'm trying to work out an angle to do so, and thinking that the ad which states full VW history and immaculate but has been written off, isn't as advertised.SUPERCAR1 said:
ring him tell him you have HPi checked the car and is listed as a Cat D write off.tell him at that price you dont expect the car to be on the register so you will be calling round the pick up your deposit.
I think that is pretty much how I see it. Shame it's over an hours drive.I suspect you are a bit stumped on the cat d front. There's no specific contradiction between being in excellent nick and being catd. A full service history need not contain anything regarding the cat d. It's a service history.
It's late to say now, but best to hpi before committing!
You can get a cat d car inspected and taken off the HPI alert register and put on the er inspected register.
The seller may give in and give you the deposit back, but I'm not convinced they need to at law.
Bert
It's late to say now, but best to hpi before committing!
You can get a cat d car inspected and taken off the HPI alert register and put on the er inspected register.
The seller may give in and give you the deposit back, but I'm not convinced they need to at law.
Bert
Just because its a Cat "D" doesn't mean the damage was severe. A lot of cars get this category because of the cost of parts and labour make repair uneconomical.
I would approach the vendor and say its been HPI'd and shows its had a large accident and cat D'd, and does he know what the damage was and who carried out the repairs. Expect to get him to drop the price by at least 25% or request the deposit back. Your MiL isn't obliged to continue the transaction if you've discovered a hidden history about the car.
I'd expect that the vendor has full knowlege of the damage and has had it repaired himself at a reduced cost, but is trying to re-coup a lot of the money back - hence the full market value. If it was a Cat "C" it'd probably be worth 50% less
Hope that helps
I would approach the vendor and say its been HPI'd and shows its had a large accident and cat D'd, and does he know what the damage was and who carried out the repairs. Expect to get him to drop the price by at least 25% or request the deposit back. Your MiL isn't obliged to continue the transaction if you've discovered a hidden history about the car.
I'd expect that the vendor has full knowlege of the damage and has had it repaired himself at a reduced cost, but is trying to re-coup a lot of the money back - hence the full market value. If it was a Cat "C" it'd probably be worth 50% less
Hope that helps
Sadly the MiL is rather impulsive when it comes to this sort of thing.
I'm thinking along the same lines that he knew about it too, MiL said he didn't have the service history book but a print off from VW which showed the services.
To my mind immaculate doesn't mean accident but repaired either and now MiL doesn't want the car at all.
I'm thinking along the same lines that he knew about it too, MiL said he didn't have the service history book but a print off from VW which showed the services.
To my mind immaculate doesn't mean accident but repaired either and now MiL doesn't want the car at all.
If a deposit has been paid with no conditions attached, she has agreed to the deal on offer. If she changes her mind afterwards, tough luck.
The deposit was paid as the first step in the process of paying for the vehicle and to stop the vendor selling to someone else. The vendor can quite
easily say he put off several other buyers on the basis of your MIL's deposit so he would be at a financial loss if he returned it.
He hasn't done anything wrong, your MIL has lost her deposit.
The deposit was paid as the first step in the process of paying for the vehicle and to stop the vendor selling to someone else. The vendor can quite
easily say he put off several other buyers on the basis of your MIL's deposit so he would be at a financial loss if he returned it.
He hasn't done anything wrong, your MIL has lost her deposit.
It's a six of one half a dozen of the other though to my mind - he stated to her the car was immaculate and yet it was written off. Not quite immaculate.
She was certainly silly for not getting the car HPI'd or inspected but as said, she's rather impulsive on these things.
I hope she'll listen to our advice in future.
She was certainly silly for not getting the car HPI'd or inspected but as said, she's rather impulsive on these things.
I hope she'll listen to our advice in future.
Jasandjules said:
It's a six of one half a dozen of the other though to my mind - he stated to her the car was immaculate and yet it was written off. Not quite immaculate.
She was certainly silly for not getting the car HPI'd or inspected but as said, she's rather impulsive on these things.
I hope she'll listen to our advice in future.
How long ago did you put the deposit down? Is the car still advertised, or is the advertisement down?She was certainly silly for not getting the car HPI'd or inspected but as said, she's rather impulsive on these things.
I hope she'll listen to our advice in future.
The reason I ask is that lawfully even if they were to argue that they have encountered costs, the only costs they can claim is their actual costs in your pulling out of the deal. That doesnt matter whether the deposit is £100, £1000 or whatever. The rest they will have to give back.
In my book, 'immaculate' means free of fault or error. In most cases the history like this is important, however in the car trade, if it is category D, then this is certainly an example where 'immaculate' is pushing it to say the least.
I think you need to think tactically for a way forward. If it were me, I would be asking for an appointment to have a second look at the car. When I got there, I would start having a look over the car for possible accident damage, and then just ask them straight about the Category D - that this is what the check has bought up, and what they know about it.
After their explanation, I would politely say that if it is category D, then it is not worth what is being asked, and as you dont what to look like you are using this as a way of wangling a lower price than was agreed, you will walk away - you dont want a category D car, you want an immaculate one as advertised, and would like your deposit back to be able to go any buy it.
If they dig their heels in, I would mention that you are legally in the right, and if you drive away you will be forced to take legal action to get your deposit back and also cover the costs of your wasted trips. In the meantime also, tell them as legally they are holding your deposit, they also wouldnt be able to sell their car...
If you walk away now with your money, they will be far better off...
Actually, in this case I don't think you'll have too much trouble getting the deposit back. Sale of goods act usually applies in these cases and you should still have a 7 days cooling off period applying. I similarly bought a BMW a few years ago and was assured by the vendor that he'd HPI'd it and it'd come back clear, however I'd been driving it a couple of days and noticed wind noise coming from the nearside door (bear in mind I restore cars for a living so I'm no fool when it comes to looking them over) so I investigated, and found a brand new BMW wing and rear quarter panel! So I HPI'd it myself and discovered it was a total write-off (this was before categories applied). I went back to the vendor who then admitted he'd not actually HPI'd it at all - he thought it was such a nice and straight car t didn't need one!! The big problem was I'd traded a car in which he'd then got a buyer for, so I managed to persuade him to give me my cash back minus the trade-in.
The point is the vendor lied about the history of the vehicle - and in your case you're still protected by a cooling off period as only a deposit has been paid. As the car has a hidden history that hasn't been mentioned the vendor would be foolish to NOT return the deposit. Caveat Empor really only applies to auctions. Private sales are still covered by the sale of goods act as the item was advertised as immaculate - it obviously isn't!
A court would find in your favour, if you wanted to take it that far.
The point is the vendor lied about the history of the vehicle - and in your case you're still protected by a cooling off period as only a deposit has been paid. As the car has a hidden history that hasn't been mentioned the vendor would be foolish to NOT return the deposit. Caveat Empor really only applies to auctions. Private sales are still covered by the sale of goods act as the item was advertised as immaculate - it obviously isn't!
A court would find in your favour, if you wanted to take it that far.
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