Time error on Fixed Penalty Ticket = invalid ??? or not ???
Discussion
Hello all,
I was stopped last September for allegedly not wearing my seatbelt. But the Officer who gave me the Fixed Penalty Ticket put an incorrect / impossible time on the ticket.
Does that make it invalid?
If I go to Court and plead not guilty will I win? If I can prove I was not there at the stated time in the Officers Witness Statement will I get off scott free?
Any legal types reading this - your opinion is appreciated.
Rudel.
I was stopped last September for allegedly not wearing my seatbelt. But the Officer who gave me the Fixed Penalty Ticket put an incorrect / impossible time on the ticket.
Does that make it invalid?
If I go to Court and plead not guilty will I win? If I can prove I was not there at the stated time in the Officers Witness Statement will I get off scott free?
Any legal types reading this - your opinion is appreciated.
Rudel.
I was wearing my seatbelt. It was an Autumn evening and the Police Officer was wearing dark glasses as the sun was low in the sky. I don't think she could see me properly. I drive a van for work and I think she saw my 'cargo straps' hanging just behind my drivers seat and thought they were an unworn seatbelt.
Does the fact that she is a 'dog handler' make a difference as opposed to a fully trained Traffic Officer?
I thought in Law the Prosecution would basically say "this offence was committed by you, at this place at this time" so I can say "no (not guilty). I cannot have been there. Here is my proof" and show them my documents.
Apologies if I am over simplifying things......
lastly, my family has had about 10 vehicles stolen or stolen from over the years and the Police only caught 1 of the Offenders. Not a good performance rating is it ? But the Police seem to Nail the slightest minor traffic Offence where there is no tangible victim. Odd use of resources.
Does the fact that she is a 'dog handler' make a difference as opposed to a fully trained Traffic Officer?
I thought in Law the Prosecution would basically say "this offence was committed by you, at this place at this time" so I can say "no (not guilty). I cannot have been there. Here is my proof" and show them my documents.
Apologies if I am over simplifying things......
lastly, my family has had about 10 vehicles stolen or stolen from over the years and the Police only caught 1 of the Offenders. Not a good performance rating is it ? But the Police seem to Nail the slightest minor traffic Offence where there is no tangible victim. Odd use of resources.
With regards to the ticket - will be for you and the officer to argue the toss in court. She will need to state what she saw and why she believes the offence to have been committed.
With regards to the detection of the stolen vehicles - unless there is evidence to arrest a suspect then no one will be arrested. Can't blame the BiB if there are no leads.
The BiB are expected to uphold the law and enforce it and if they come across motoring offences whilst they are out and about it is their discression how they choose to deal with the incident.
ETA grammar
With regards to the detection of the stolen vehicles - unless there is evidence to arrest a suspect then no one will be arrested. Can't blame the BiB if there are no leads.
The BiB are expected to uphold the law and enforce it and if they come across motoring offences whilst they are out and about it is their discression how they choose to deal with the incident.
ETA grammar
Edited by splitter / judas on Sunday 10th February 14:26
rudel123 said:
I was wearing my seatbelt. It was an Autumn evening and the Police Officer was wearing dark glasses as the sun was low in the sky. I don't think she could see me properly. I drive a van for work and I think she saw my 'cargo straps' hanging just behind my drivers seat and thought they were an unworn seatbelt.
So fight it on this basis and forget the time error but first ask yourself is it worth it for the sake of £30, that's up to you. You'll need to work on your defence then take a day off work to attend court. If you were wearing your belt then I sympathise but I'm not sure I'd fight it.rudel123 said:
Does the fact that she is a 'dog handler' make a difference as opposed to a fully trained Traffic Officer?
We don't get them from the local kennels, they are fully trained police officers often with a lot of service. You don't need to be a roads policing officer to spot someone not wearing a seat belt. The usual lunge for the belt sticks out a mile off. rudel123 said:
I thought in Law the Prosecution would basically say "this offence was committed by you, at this place at this time" so I can say "no (not guilty). I cannot have been there. Here is my proof" and show them my documents.
Depends if he has put the right time in his notebook which is what he will use to write his statement. In court you can deny being stopped at that time but it's very easy to clarify this and establish that you were in fact stopped and spoken to by the officer.rudel123 said:
lastly, my family has had about 10 vehicles stolen or stolen from over the years and the Police only caught 1 of the Offenders. Not a good performance rating is it ? But the Police seem to Nail the slightest minor traffic Offence where there is no tangible victim. Odd use of resources.
Frustrating but look at it another way, the BiB may have saved your life if you weren't wearing a belt and were involved in an accident or changed your habit of not wearing one. Not the case as you were wearing yours but plenty don't.FPN given out last SEPT?
If you have not paid it or elected Court hearing within the suspended enforcement period, normally 21 days after issue (or longer if stated on the Notice)then it will have been registered as a sum equal to 1.5 times of the penalty.
One presumes this is not the case and the later applies - Court hearing elected on a NG plea?
One cannot contest a FPN. If objection to any matter and C.O.P. rejects any submission then it will go to Court. At Court, Magistrates have the discretion to amend summons (wrong time on Summons etc). If this is all you have in your arsenal then sorry, your powder is wet.
dvd
If you have not paid it or elected Court hearing within the suspended enforcement period, normally 21 days after issue (or longer if stated on the Notice)then it will have been registered as a sum equal to 1.5 times of the penalty.
One presumes this is not the case and the later applies - Court hearing elected on a NG plea?
One cannot contest a FPN. If objection to any matter and C.O.P. rejects any submission then it will go to Court. At Court, Magistrates have the discretion to amend summons (wrong time on Summons etc). If this is all you have in your arsenal then sorry, your powder is wet.
dvd
id fight
getting done for actually wearing a seabelt today is being fixed up for bank robbery the next.
give a dog a few yards today and they will take a few metres tomorrow.
so what if its only 30 quid, thats not the issue for me its the fact your being done for a non existant crime, that is if you are telling the truth.
if it was me and I knew i had done nothing i would fight it, if I had been nabbed for not wearing a seatbelt fair and square id cough the 30 notes and leave it at that.
getting done for actually wearing a seabelt today is being fixed up for bank robbery the next.
give a dog a few yards today and they will take a few metres tomorrow.
so what if its only 30 quid, thats not the issue for me its the fact your being done for a non existant crime, that is if you are telling the truth.
if it was me and I knew i had done nothing i would fight it, if I had been nabbed for not wearing a seatbelt fair and square id cough the 30 notes and leave it at that.
Dwight what is COP ? Probably obvious once you tell me!
I have elected to go to Court as I WAS wearing my belt.
There's a preliminary hearing in April.
But its the Officers Witness Statement that states completely the wrong time. Not Court papers.
Also, I assume she will have to lie in Court and say I have been Cautioned. This is highly annoying as I was not cautioned and never have been. If this happens I will have no faith in British Police. Period.
If I had recorded the incident on my camera phone she would be in serious trouble. Maybe next time I will........
I have elected to go to Court as I WAS wearing my belt.
There's a preliminary hearing in April.
But its the Officers Witness Statement that states completely the wrong time. Not Court papers.
Also, I assume she will have to lie in Court and say I have been Cautioned. This is highly annoying as I was not cautioned and never have been. If this happens I will have no faith in British Police. Period.
If I had recorded the incident on my camera phone she would be in serious trouble. Maybe next time I will........
C O P = Chief of Police.
It has been known for an offender to write direct to him on certain points and for him to use his discretion and void the FPN.
You have elected Court trial so the wrong time on Officers statement will be quickly dealt with and not in your favour as I said earlier.
The thrust of your argument will be that YOU WERE wearing the belt. Any passenger witnesses to support you.?
The Officer, on oath, likewise will allege that you were not.
The winner will be the person who convinces the Magistrates.
dvd
It has been known for an offender to write direct to him on certain points and for him to use his discretion and void the FPN.
You have elected Court trial so the wrong time on Officers statement will be quickly dealt with and not in your favour as I said earlier.
The thrust of your argument will be that YOU WERE wearing the belt. Any passenger witnesses to support you.?
The Officer, on oath, likewise will allege that you were not.
The winner will be the person who convinces the Magistrates.
dvd
O.K. so in UK law you are innocent until proven guilty.
So its my word against a Police Officers. Does the word of a civilian carry less weight than that of a Police Officer????
But the Police Officer can't even get the time right on the Fixed Penalty Ticket or their Witness Statement.
This situation sounds about as fair as Inheritance Tax.
So its my word against a Police Officers. Does the word of a civilian carry less weight than that of a Police Officer????
But the Police Officer can't even get the time right on the Fixed Penalty Ticket or their Witness Statement.
This situation sounds about as fair as Inheritance Tax.
rudel123 said:
Also, I assume she will have to lie in Court and say I have been Cautioned. This is highly annoying as I was not cautioned and never have been.
There is no requirement for you to be cautioned and it is common for you not to be for an absolute offence such as not wearing a seatbelt. Whether or not you were cautioned is relevant if they intend to use something you've said as evidence.rudel123 said:
O.K. so in UK law you are innocent until proven guilty.
So its my word against a Police Officers. Does the word of a civilian carry less weight than that of a Police Officer????
But the Police Officer can't even get the time right on the Fixed Penalty Ticket or their Witness Statement.
This situation sounds about as fair as Inheritance Tax.
Traffic law is different, you need to prove innocence.So its my word against a Police Officers. Does the word of a civilian carry less weight than that of a Police Officer????
But the Police Officer can't even get the time right on the Fixed Penalty Ticket or their Witness Statement.
This situation sounds about as fair as Inheritance Tax.
Hi 
I have been stopped for not wearing a seatbelt, because I wear 6 point race harnesses and they don't have a strap that runs from the shoulder area across to the main pillar of the car (which I assume is what BIB look for ???)
I just realised that although my harnesses are "E" marked and "FIA" approved (and in the 5 year date) ,I don't actually know if they are legal to use on the road ?????
As they are mounted to 6 points on the chassis, I know they ARE a lot safer than normal seatbelts, but are they legal in the UK ?
The officers who have stopped me were perfectly happy once they realised I was wearing harnesses though.
All the best Brett
I have been stopped for not wearing a seatbelt, because I wear 6 point race harnesses and they don't have a strap that runs from the shoulder area across to the main pillar of the car (which I assume is what BIB look for ???)
I just realised that although my harnesses are "E" marked and "FIA" approved (and in the 5 year date) ,I don't actually know if they are legal to use on the road ?????
As they are mounted to 6 points on the chassis, I know they ARE a lot safer than normal seatbelts, but are they legal in the UK ?
The officers who have stopped me were perfectly happy once they realised I was wearing harnesses though.
All the best Brett
Brett928S2 said:
I know they ARE a lot safer than normal seatbelts, but are they legal in the UK ?
E marked so yep. My Cobra went through the Single Vehicle Approval process with four-point harnesses and the requirement was E markings on the belts with fixing points into the chassis with the relevant strength markings. The one thing to look out for is if they have clip-on fixings to the anchors they must be locked (split-pin, for example) when in use to prevent them accidentally unhooking.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff