Discussion
I was stopped by the police last week and given a producer, which expires tomorrow. I couldn't find my cover note (from A Plan), only the signed proposal form, so contacted them to have one reissued, and discovered they still had the old private reg on their system. I rung up between Christmas and New Year to tell them about the change, but there was no record of it. Anyway they said they'd send an amended one which has arrived today... dated from the day AFTER I was stopped! They say it can't be back-dated because a change was made! I told them I'd informed them of the change at the start of the year, and all they could suggest was that I take my old (missing!!!) cover note and the new one and explain what's happened. To quote A Plan.. "..you should be alright doing that"
Great. Am I buggered? I doubt the desk clerk will have a clue about this will they?
Great. Am I buggered? I doubt the desk clerk will have a clue about this will they?
Windymiller said:
I was stopped by the police last week and given a producer, which expires tomorrow. I couldn't find my cover note (from A Plan), only the signed proposal form, so contacted them to have one reissued, and discovered they still had the old private reg on their system. I rung up between Christmas and New Year to tell them about the change, but there was no record of it. Anyway they said they'd send an amended one which has arrived today... dated from the day AFTER I was stopped! They say it can't be back-dated because a change was made! I told them I'd informed them of the change at the start of the year, and all they could suggest was that I take my old (missing!!!) cover note and the new one and explain what's happened. To quote A Plan.. "..you should be alright doing that"
Great. Am I buggered? I doubt the desk clerk will have a clue about this will they?
Hmmm. You are slightly buggered, yes. Can you explain more about the change of reg stuff? WHen did that happen?Great. Am I buggered? I doubt the desk clerk will have a clue about this will they?
Can you ask for a copy of the old cover note?
Then they sent you the new one, hence you having "proof" of cover then, and some now also.false plates.
300 quid car.
no insurance.
no tax
no mot
no licence (if your caught a couple of times)
ive not grew the balls required to do it yet but everyday its making more and more sense.
plod aint interested in the law dodging scum, only the well to do people trying to do everything by the book, ohh, and drive a car they consider to be "nice"
300 quid car.
no insurance.
no tax
no mot
no licence (if your caught a couple of times)
ive not grew the balls required to do it yet but everyday its making more and more sense.
plod aint interested in the law dodging scum, only the well to do people trying to do everything by the book, ohh, and drive a car they consider to be "nice"
DucatiGary said:
false plates.
300 quid car.
no insurance.
no tax
no mot
no licence (if your caught a couple of times)
ive not grew the balls required to do it yet but everyday its making more and more sense.
plod aint interested in the law dodging scum, only the well to do people trying to do everything by the book, ohh, and drive a car they consider to be "nice"
I'm afraid Gazza might be right here.300 quid car.
no insurance.
no tax
no mot
no licence (if your caught a couple of times)
ive not grew the balls required to do it yet but everyday its making more and more sense.
plod aint interested in the law dodging scum, only the well to do people trying to do everything by the book, ohh, and drive a car they consider to be "nice"
Go to the cop shop with everything you have.Explain to them the situation.
BUT.
1. Wear a suit
2. Expect them to do you anyway, as on the evidence you weren't insured.
Hooli said:
you must have paperwork about the reg change? take that too. can you find anything for the insurance in the old number? original policy schedule?
Exactly. Take everything. And before you go, sort it into chronological order and staple it all together. Then you won't look like the sort of idiot who keeps his car documents in a shoebox under the stairs, even if you are.The more evidence you have, the less likely they are to shaft you,.
Yeah, I'm taking the morning off, and I'll present it all in a nicely organised style. Plate change was being mishandled by the dealer I bought my car off, and came through when I got back from Spain at Christmas.
Think I may have binned the old cover note, and didn't remember to confirm I got the new one first. Stupid I know.
Think I may have binned the old cover note, and didn't remember to confirm I got the new one first. Stupid I know.
Windymiller said:
Yeah, I'm taking the morning off, and I'll present it all in a nicely organised style. Plate change was being mishandled by the dealer I bought my car off, and came through when I got back from Spain at Christmas.
Think I may have binned the old cover note, and didn't remember to confirm I got the new one first. Stupid I know.
Why dont you get A Plan to send you the (original) insurance certificate and forget the covernote fiasco? Explain you need it NOW! Get it express delivered next day if needs be. It will have your original reg on it with the insurance start date.Think I may have binned the old cover note, and didn't remember to confirm I got the new one first. Stupid I know.
When you speak to the clerk on the front desk, explain the circumstances and show them what you've got. They are likely to photocopy most of it to accompany the HO/RT2 which will be returned to the issuing officer for consideration of prosecution. There is a space on the form for a reply to the offences being pointed out - take the opportunity to explain and ensure the clerk notes it. You can always ask to speak to the officer concerned, but they are likely not to be available given shift patterns/being out at a job. You can write down what you want the officer to know in advance but bear in mind it can be used in evidence.
I frequently receive HO/RT2s with a note regarding something of it and apply my discretion. This may involve a call to the insurance company's Police liaison to check that the vehicle would have been covered to the required extent at the time of the stop despite any error in paperwork. Your hope is that in this instance the officer carries out some checks and uses their discretion - it is rare to run with the fail to produce alone if the officer can satsify themselves that the vehicle was and is insured and the person involved has made some effort to comply (i.e. come in and explained).
Bear in mind that if they do proceed with a prosecution, the summons would likely be for both no insurance and failing to provide. You still have the opportunity to prove you were insured by producing a valid certificate or some other proof (verifiable letter from the insurer, for example) at court or to the CPS in advance. The fail to produce may also be dropped in the circumstances. Just make sure you get the evidence from the insurer ASAP.
The officer has no other way of checking that the OP is insured if the insurance database doesn't show insurance (which it wouldn't if the registration was wrong) and they don't have the insurance company details. Once they have something (like the company name) further checks can be done. Least time consuming way for the officer (and the motorist at the side of the road) is to get the certificate produced, officer to call the insurance company, give them the policy number and ask if it was covered.
I frequently receive HO/RT2s with a note regarding something of it and apply my discretion. This may involve a call to the insurance company's Police liaison to check that the vehicle would have been covered to the required extent at the time of the stop despite any error in paperwork. Your hope is that in this instance the officer carries out some checks and uses their discretion - it is rare to run with the fail to produce alone if the officer can satsify themselves that the vehicle was and is insured and the person involved has made some effort to comply (i.e. come in and explained).
Bear in mind that if they do proceed with a prosecution, the summons would likely be for both no insurance and failing to provide. You still have the opportunity to prove you were insured by producing a valid certificate or some other proof (verifiable letter from the insurer, for example) at court or to the CPS in advance. The fail to produce may also be dropped in the circumstances. Just make sure you get the evidence from the insurer ASAP.
The officer has no other way of checking that the OP is insured if the insurance database doesn't show insurance (which it wouldn't if the registration was wrong) and they don't have the insurance company details. Once they have something (like the company name) further checks can be done. Least time consuming way for the officer (and the motorist at the side of the road) is to get the certificate produced, officer to call the insurance company, give them the policy number and ask if it was covered.
DucatiGary said:
plod aint interested in the law dodging scum, only the well to do people trying to do everything by the book, ohh, and drive a car they consider to be "nice"
Yes... of course we do AndyRw said:
Useful helpful stuff........
Out of interest, officer, is it now standard practice (as happened with me) that when an innocent motorist is whacked up the ar5e by a knobhead while stationary at traffic lights when said knobhead's foot slips off the clutch, resulting in no damage, that the police will (when the innocent motorist goes and reports it in case he's about to become the victim of a spurious claim) give the innocent motorist a massive form to fill in along with a PRODUCER if you don't mind!!!
Just interested!!
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Wednesday 20th February 20:39
AndyRw said:
The officer has no other way of checking that the OP is insured if the insurance database doesn't show insurance (which it wouldn't if the registration was wrong) and they don't have the insurance company details.
The MID helpline ? Or is that just regional at the moment ?You phoned the insurance company? Which phone did you use? Do you have an itemised bill? Can you get one? Then you can give the insurance company the date and time of the call, and get a copy of the recording. They can then write a letter to explain the error was their fault. You can give that to plod, and that ought to be sufficient, I hope....
When calling the insurance company to ask them to dig out said tape, I'd inform them that you will be issuing a claim against them for any consequential losses from any conviction, including but not limited to any lost earnings etc.. It's amazing how quickly they can dig things out and rectify matters when they are liable.
When calling the insurance company to ask them to dig out said tape, I'd inform them that you will be issuing a claim against them for any consequential losses from any conviction, including but not limited to any lost earnings etc.. It's amazing how quickly they can dig things out and rectify matters when they are liable.
Just take everything you can with you, If you can show that it's the plate that has been changed and it's not you trying to drive a 2nd car on the same policy then i'm sure common sence will prevail.
If you confuse the clerk ask to speak a constable or call your insurance firm at the station, most insurers have a police liason too.
This is why I believe that insurance should be on the VIN with the VRM as secondary information, people are always changing their private plates and at the end of the day it's the car we are paying to issure not the number plate
If you confuse the clerk ask to speak a constable or call your insurance firm at the station, most insurers have a police liason too.
This is why I believe that insurance should be on the VIN with the VRM as secondary information, people are always changing their private plates and at the end of the day it's the car we are paying to issure not the number plate
Vesuvius 996 said:
AndyRw said:
Useful helpful stuff........
Out of interest, officer, is it now standard practice (as happened with me) that when an innocent motorist is whacked up the ar5e by a knobhead while stationary at traffic lights when said knobhead's foot slips off the clutch, resulting in no damage, that the police will (when the innocent motorist goes and reports it in case he's about to become the victim of a spurious claim) give the innocent motorist a massive form to fill in along with a PRODUCER if you don't mind!!!Just interested!!
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Wednesday 20th February 20:39
Vesuvius 996 said:
officer,... is it now standard practice... that when an innocent motorist is whacked up the ar5e by a knobhead while stationary at traffic lights when said knobhead's foot slips off the clutch, resulting in no damage, that the police will... give the innocent motorist a massive form to fill in along with a PRODUCER...
I am human, so you can call me Andy!The only form I can think of would be a proforma witness statement, which is reasonably lengthy but quite straightforward - a few questions, space for a diagram and a small area for an account. This would normally only be done in the case of a prosecution being considered against the other party for some reason. Did they go and PNC the other vehicle? Perhaps no insurance on their part? No damage wouldn't require you to report anything but I think it's quite sensible for you to have a record and shouldn't be difficult.
At our nick you would speak to the front desk clerk, who would enter an incident log with the details you give them. They'd PNC both vehicles, check for insurance, etc... and likely ask you to produce your documents (though no requirement if no damage). If there was anything further it would be passed to a local officer for slow time investigation. If there was damage and the other party hadn't complied with S170 RTA a collision record would also be created. Then you definitely would be sent a proforma statement request, though from us it'd be through the post.
Noger said:
The MID helpline ? Or is that just regional at the moment ?
We were given the number at the end of last year, but none of us had much joy with it. Their general response was that if it wasn't on MID available to us via PNC they couldn't help much... in which case we might as well go through our own PNC bureau. Has it improved? Can they now search on name, address, etc... rather than just vehicle index?Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff