Things the car isn't type approved for and law / insurance

[Duke Caboom]

The FB forum for my everyday car is populated by rules-Nazis. To the extent that someone was called "unbelievably purile" for saying that they sometimes go 75-80 on the motorway

The car that I share with the Nazis is not type approved to tow or have a roof rack.

Every now and again someone asks what would happen if they fitted a road rack or towed something. They are told they will be arrested for driving an unsafe vehicle and their insurance invalidated.

Is this true? Would someone with a roof rack or small trailer, which was in no way a factor in an accident, really be risking arrest and bankruptcy?

[redstar1]

Off to Rwanda.

[skyebear]

Duke Caboom said:

The FB forum for my everyday car is populated by rules-Nazis. To the extent that someone was called "unbelievably purile" for saying that they sometimes go 75-80 on the motorway

The car that I share with the Nazis is not type approved to tow or have a roof rack.

Every now and again someone asks what would happen if they fitted a road rack or towed something. They are told they will be arrested for driving an unsafe vehicle and their insurance invalidated.

Is this true? Would someone with a roof rack or small trailer, which was in no way a factor in an accident, really be risking arrest and bankruptcy?

This you? Maniac!

[cashmax]

I fitted a towbar to my F10 M5, which was not type approved for towing. I called the insurance company and told them I had fitted a towbar, which they noted and it reduced the insurance cost by about £35.

So my insurance was not invalidated and I was not arrested whilst towing.

[E-bmw]

Duke Caboom said:

Every now and again someone asks what would happen if they fitted a road rack or towed something. They are told they will be arrested for driving an unsafe vehicle and their insurance invalidated.

Is this true? Would someone with a roof rack or small trailer, which was in no way a factor in an accident, really be risking arrest and bankruptcy?

Whilst it is EXCEEDINGLY unlikely, that doesn't mean it is impossible that doing so would result in legal action of some kind.

Technically your insurance would be null & void that also doesn't mean you won't be able to insure it, however it MAY mean that any claim would be denied 7 insurance could be cancelled.

[E-bmw]

cashmax said:

I fitted a towbar to my F10 M5, which was not type approved for towing. I called the insurance company and told them I had fitted a towbar, which they noted and it reduced the insurance cost by about £35.

So my insurance was not invalidated and I was not arrested whilst towing.

As per my other reply, just because you have been able to insure your car does not mean you are actually in the clear.

As we all know very well insurance companies have no problem taking your money when you open a policy, that does not mean that they will pay out or that it is right & proper.

They are equally good at denying claims further down the line if they find a way to do so.

[sam.rog]

A lot of JDM cars aren’t approved for towing.
Take the legacy for instance. Uk is approved JDM not. The rear crash beams are different between the two and the rear bumper is also different because of this.

A uk towing kit will fit a jdm car.
Crash and cause life changing injuries to someone and I wouldn’t like to be testing how diligent my insurance company were.

[AW10]

Assuming there's no incident I suspect you will never have an issue with a tow bar and/or roof bars on a vehicle which isn't type approved for them.

But if there's an issue (accident etc) the severity of the issue might reveal that the car wasn't supposed to have those items fitted and then it can get murky. For (extreme/silly/ridiculous?) example, if your towbar is ripped loose from the car and trailer goes into the other carriageway and closes the road for 2 hours someone might be interested enough to investigate.

I would at a minimum notify your insurer that a towbar has been fitted. They are v unlikely to know whether or not the car is type approved for a towbar; they will just note it and may adjust the cost.

It all depends on your appetite for risk.

[Duke Caboom]

Thasnk for the replies. Enjoyed the image.

I'm not thinking of towing or fitting a roof rack, by the way, just interested.

How abount driving about with an empty roof rack and the law? It would be difficult to argue that the roof rack had made the car unsafe. Is the potential offence driving a car driving a car in a condition that it wasn't type approved for or would it need to be demonstrated that it was unsafe as a result?

What if the car was involved in an accident, with an empty roof rack fitted. The roof rack didn't contribute to the cause of the accident. Are we saying insurance company might use it to resit paying out?

[paul_c123]

Others have pointed out that with a large payout looming, insurers may investigate further and no pay.

It doesn't have to be the 6 (or more) figure, life changing serious accident. It could be as simple as, you fit (but don't use) the towbar on a non-type-approved car, it has a rear end shunt, probably not even your fault, and the third party insurer use it as leverage not to pay out. Even if it were only fitted to carry a cycle rack.

[cashmax]

E-bmw said:

As per my other reply, just because you have been able to insure your car does not mean you are actually in the clear.

As we all know very well insurance companies have no problem taking your money when you open a policy, that does not mean that they will pay out or that it is right & proper.

They are equally good at denying claims further down the line if they find a way to do so.

I think you will find those days are (mostly) behind us, the ombudsman does a pretty good job of holding insurance companies to account nowadays. Having said that your point could apply equally to every insurance policy one takes out if you want to live with that level of scepticism. It's the same argument everyone has about them refusing a claim because you don't have a valid mot, which as I think we all know now, is something that they cannot do and cannot even refer to an MOT in their terms and conditions anymore I don't think.

In my case my M5 was damaged pretty badly whilst I was towing to a race weekend and go rear ended, causing damage to the cross member the towbar was mounted on, as well as the rear bumper. If there was ever a chance for an insurance company to find a way out of a claim, this would have been it. They didn't even question it.

Edited by cashmax on Sunday 10th May 14:04

[Caddyshack]

cashmax said:

I fitted a towbar to my F10 M5, which was not type approved for towing. I called the insurance company and told them I had fitted a towbar, which they noted and it reduced the insurance cost by about £35.

So my insurance was not invalidated and I was not arrested whilst towing.

But, did you inform the ins co that it was not type approved or just assumed they would know? It’s the insurance loss adjuster you need to worry about in the event of a big claim.

[paul_c123]

cashmax said:

I think you will find those days are (mostly) behind us, the ombudsman does a pretty good job of holding insurance companies to account nowadays.

We're also in an era where being uninsured on the roads is more and more common; a third party is more likely to lie or otherwise be uncooperative; and there are budget insurers who don't have the background admin capacity to handle claims in a timely manner, making even quite simple insurance claims drag on for far longer than they ought to.

Of course, a lot of this would apply without the non-type-approved towbar or roof rack on the car.


Also going back to the OP, I know that towbars now need type approval. Wasn't aware of any such requirement for roof racks.

[Aretnap]

Caddyshack said:

cashmax said:

I fitted a towbar to my F10 M5, which was not type approved for towing. I called the insurance company and told them I had fitted a towbar, which they noted and it reduced the insurance cost by about £35.

So my insurance was not invalidated and I was not arrested whilst towing.

But, did you inform the ins co that it was not type approved or just assumed they would know?

Why does it matter? Like any other material fact, if the insurance company want to know whether it's type-approved for towing they either have to (a) ask you or (b) look it up for themselves* before they agree to insure you. As a consumer, you are not required to guess what sort of things insurers might want to know about, or to volunteer information that they don't ask you about.

(* I imagine that if you asked the average motorist "is your car type-approved for towing?" the reply would be "erm, buggered if I know, what are you talking about?". So if it's the sort of thing that insurance companies really do want to know about then it would make far more sense for them to check for themselves than to ask the customer.)

[paul_c123]

Interestingly, my insurance certificate has a specific section titled "the policy does not cover", and one of the items is "Use whilst drawing a greater number of trailers than is permitted by law". So I think if I were towing with a vehicle not approved for towing, I'd be on thin ice.

[Duke Caboom]

paul_c123 said:

Also going back to the OP, I know that towbars now need type approval. Wasn't aware of any such requirement for roof racks.

Well it is, according to the know-it-alls in my FB group...

[BertBert]

paul_c123 said:

Interestingly, my insurance certificate has a specific section titled "the policy does not cover", and one of the items is Use whilst drawing a greater number of trailers than is permitted by law". So I think if I were towing with a vehicle not approved for towing, I'd be on thin ice.

What fabulously strange terminology! Is there a situation when you could tow two or more trailers? Or does it just mean towing 1 trailer when you are not allowed to????

[paul_c123]

BertBert said:

What fabulously strange terminology! Is there a situation when you could tow two or more trailers? Or does it just mean towing 1 trailer when you are not allowed to????

For a car/van (I am only insured for <3.5t) you can tow two trailers if one of them is a recovery-dolly-style thing, something like this:



Also, my insurance covers both business and personal use. There are many scenarios where for business/commercial use, I'd need a tacho to tow (because the gross combined weight would be over 3.5t), but the same vehicle+trailer could well be personal use, hence tacho exempt. Or one of the many other tacho exemptions could be enjoyed.

Edited by paul_c123 on Sunday 10th May 19:18

[dxg]

paul_c123 said:

BertBert said:

What fabulously strange terminology! Is there a situation when you could tow two or more trailers? Or does it just mean towing 1 trailer when you are not allowed to????

For a car/van (I am only insured for <3.5t) you can tow two trailers if one of them is a recovery-dolly-style thing, something like this:



Also, my insurance covers both business and personal use. There are many scenarios where for business/commercial use, I'd need a tacho to tow (because the gross combined weight would be over 3.5t), but the same vehicle+trailer could well be personal use, hence tacho exempt. Or one of the many other tacho exemptions could be enjoyed.

Edited by paul_c123 on Sunday 10th May 19:18

What if the car on the dolly has a towbar attached and is towing while being towed?

[ExBoringVolvoDriver]

I saw a car the other day that had effectively put on a home made roof rack. It was a wooden pallet strapped to the roof by way of straps running through the interior! Given that it was driving away from the tip, then I am guessing they had taken an old sofa on top.

Would have been interesting if he had had an accident as the roof rack certainly wasn’t type approved!