Illegal 30mph limits
Discussion
Last moth I received a NIP for 40 in a 30 limit. I was caught by a mobile camera, but that's not important to the story.
I have responeded to the NIP as I was the driver at the time, today I received a conditional offer.
Now this offer states that I was speeding on a restricted road contrary to S81 1 of RTRA 1984. Now, this speed limit was put in place on a trunk road in a village about 3 years ago. The village has no street lights. From my reading of RTRA 1984, as shown on www.abd.org.uk/30.html this road cannot be restricted under S81 or S82.
The question is can I / should I
A) Just send this information to the police "Safety Camera Office"
B) Contest the allegation in court and defend myself
C) Engage a solicitor, and if so WHO???
As a matter of interest I know that this temporary camera location has caught a lot of people, and if it can be proved that the limit has been illegally applied it will mean a lot of overturned fines.
I have responeded to the NIP as I was the driver at the time, today I received a conditional offer.
Now this offer states that I was speeding on a restricted road contrary to S81 1 of RTRA 1984. Now, this speed limit was put in place on a trunk road in a village about 3 years ago. The village has no street lights. From my reading of RTRA 1984, as shown on www.abd.org.uk/30.html this road cannot be restricted under S81 or S82.
The question is can I / should I
A) Just send this information to the police "Safety Camera Office"
B) Contest the allegation in court and defend myself
C) Engage a solicitor, and if so WHO???
As a matter of interest I know that this temporary camera location has caught a lot of people, and if it can be proved that the limit has been illegally applied it will mean a lot of overturned fines.
Go back and check if there are any 30 mph repeater signs. If not the limit is unenforcable. Take 35mm pictures (not digital) of the road asap, bring a witness with you to verify the "date and time stamp" of the photos and then consult a solicitor.
The case you should refer to for your defence is the Crown vs Alan Howe, Ipswich Crown Court, Nov 2000.
Good luck.
>> Edited by Deadly Dog on Thursday 13th February 10:22
The case you should refer to for your defence is the Crown vs Alan Howe, Ipswich Crown Court, Nov 2000.
Good luck.
>> Edited by Deadly Dog on Thursday 13th February 10:22
The street light spacing etc stuff is what the sped limit defaults to if the council don't make it something else. Even without lights the local council can pass a byelaw (or some kind of law) making the speed 30 or whatever it chooses.
If there are no repeater signs you may have half a leg to stand on tho'
If there are no repeater signs you may have half a leg to stand on tho'
Deadly Dog said: Go back and check if there are any 30 mph repeater signs. If not the limit is unenforcable. Take 35mm pictures (not digital) of the road asap, bring a witness with you to verify the "date and time stamp" of the photos and then consult a solicitor.
The case you should refer to for your defence is the Crown vs Alan Howe, Ipswich Crown Court, Nov 2000.
Good luck.
>> Edited by Deadly Dog on Thursday 13th February 10:22
Not quite correct DD, 30 mph zones must NOT have repeaters, all others MUST have. 30 mph relies on other conditions including the spacing of the street lights. However AFAIK if there is a 30 mph sign in red circle at the start of the zone it is a valid speed sign regardless of other considerations such as lighting.
My understanding from the ABD website is that there are two ways a 30mph limit can be enforced:
1) It is a restricted road and has street light spacing less than 200yds. (must be no repeater in these limits). This is covered by section 81 and 82 of RTRA
2) It is not a restricted road but has had a speed limit applied using section 84(2) (in this case there must be repeaters)
My situation is that the NIP and Conditional offer both refer to a restricted road under section 81(1). However the road has no street lights, and has repeaters, sugesting that the council has erroneously applied the 30mph limit under 82(2b) which is only intended for restoring restricted road status to a road with street lights that has previously been derestricted.
So
1)no street lights mean the road is not restricted (but may have a 30mph limit under section 84)
2)If they argue the road is restricted then the Traffic Signs Regulations (TSRGD 1994) section 10 say that they should not have repeaters
1) It is a restricted road and has street light spacing less than 200yds. (must be no repeater in these limits). This is covered by section 81 and 82 of RTRA
2) It is not a restricted road but has had a speed limit applied using section 84(2) (in this case there must be repeaters)
My situation is that the NIP and Conditional offer both refer to a restricted road under section 81(1). However the road has no street lights, and has repeaters, sugesting that the council has erroneously applied the 30mph limit under 82(2b) which is only intended for restoring restricted road status to a road with street lights that has previously been derestricted.
So
1)no street lights mean the road is not restricted (but may have a 30mph limit under section 84)
2)If they argue the road is restricted then the Traffic Signs Regulations (TSRGD 1994) section 10 say that they should not have repeaters
Not quite correct DD, 30 mph zones must NOT have repeaters, all others MUST have. 30 mph relies on other conditions including the spacing of the street lights. However AFAIK if there is a 30 mph sign in red circle at the start of the zone it is a valid speed sign regardless of other considerations such as lighting.
Just to clear up any misunderstanding, Polson mentioned that there was no street lighting in his first message hence my argument. For an unsigned 30 mph limit to be valid the street lighting must be not more than 200 yards apart, as stated in his second post, if the road classed as 'restricted'.
Alan Howe won his case on appeal because of exactly this point. The prosecution withdrew their evidence and there was no case to answer. More info can be found here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2283419.stm
Best regards,
DD
>> Edited by Deadly Dog on Thursday 13th February 21:14
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