Anyone had the Westfield dilemma?
Discussion
I am interested to know the main reasons that most of you opt for buying and building a Caterham over a Westfield when looking for a Seven Style car? IMO there are pros and cons to both. What are the main reservations any hang ups people have on Westfields, and how many of you drove both before making a decision?
Personally I think westfeild are fantastic value relative to Caterham as you effectively get an SV body, lowered floor, fully independent rear suspension and 15" wheels as standard on an SE model (Caterham equivalent a Roadsport 150 SV). Whilst Catherham keep to their roots making seven replicas Westfield are free to modernize the whole car over time.
Any opinions welcome! I realize I am probably going to get a right slating for posting this in the Caterham section!
Personally I think westfeild are fantastic value relative to Caterham as you effectively get an SV body, lowered floor, fully independent rear suspension and 15" wheels as standard on an SE model (Caterham equivalent a Roadsport 150 SV). Whilst Catherham keep to their roots making seven replicas Westfield are free to modernize the whole car over time.
Any opinions welcome! I realize I am probably going to get a right slating for posting this in the Caterham section!
Edited by GTiFrank on Thursday 19th April 12:52
Firstly, This very topic comes up probably once a month and results in a 5-6 page bunfight! Kidding. But since the search tool barely ever works...
I think the main reasons people go for Caterhams is;
-Perceived 'classic' status
-Perceived better quality
-Performance and handling 'out-of-the-box'
-Generally people think Caterham technical information and aftersales parts/services supply is better
-Personal preferences re: cosmetic appearance of the cars.
There are a lot of 'perceived', 'personal', 'general' type disclaimers in tehre, make of that what you will.
I chose a Caterham because of the single specification race series.
GTiFrank said:
Whilst Catherham keep to their roots making seven replicas Westfield are free to modernize the whole car over time.
Not strictly true. The Caterham is a very different beast to the S3 Lotus these days. I think the main reasons people go for Caterhams is;
-Perceived 'classic' status
-Perceived better quality
-Performance and handling 'out-of-the-box'
-Generally people think Caterham technical information and aftersales parts/services supply is better
-Personal preferences re: cosmetic appearance of the cars.
There are a lot of 'perceived', 'personal', 'general' type disclaimers in tehre, make of that what you will.
I chose a Caterham because of the single specification race series.
HustleRussell said:
I think the main reasons people go for Caterhams is;
-Perceived 'classic' status
-Perceived better quality
-Performance and handling 'out-of-the-box'
-Generally people think Caterham technical information and aftersales parts/services supply is better
-Personal preferences re: cosmetic appearance of the cars.
That just about sums it up for me, but I'd add depreciation is better on the Caterham. -Perceived 'classic' status
-Perceived better quality
-Performance and handling 'out-of-the-box'
-Generally people think Caterham technical information and aftersales parts/services supply is better
-Personal preferences re: cosmetic appearance of the cars.
I did take a few years deciding between the two before I went for the R400. The Caterham won mainly on the 'out-of-the-box' performance and handling. Go to any trackday and those putting in the quick times are most likely to be in Caterhams - that's not to say a Westfield can't be as quick, or even quicker, it's just that they seem to need a bit more tweaking, effort, and experience to get what a Caterham gives you on day one.
I built a Westfield first time round, but always regretted not buying a Caterham. Now I have built a Caterham, I wouldn't want to swap back.
I'm sure the new Westfields are much better sorted than the Sei Wide I bought 20 years ago, but I really don't like the style of the newer versions.
I'm sure the new Westfields are much better sorted than the Sei Wide I bought 20 years ago, but I really don't like the style of the newer versions.
GTiFrank said:
Personally I think westfeild are fantastic value relative to Catherham as you effectively get an SV body, lowered floor, fully independent rear suspension and 15" wheels as standard on an SE model (Catherham equivalent a Roadsport 150 SV). Whilst Catherham keep to their roots making seven replicas Westfield are free to modernize the whole car over time.
Personally I don't consider 15" wheels to be a good thing and I prefer the S3 to the SV.Also, like Downsman, not keen on the later Westfield styling but there is no denying that they are good value and some are very well 'sorted'
Edited by VHPD on Wednesday 11th April 21:38
thanks for the feedback. Appriciate a lot of the percieved stuff mentioned.
And i agree 13 inch wheels are better, looks and lighter presumably, cheaper tyres etc.
I take it you guys bought your cars as kit? In that case I would have thought a car that needs some fine tuning and fettling to get i exactly as you want a good thing and not to much more work if you already built the car?
Actually not sure if you can build an r400 yourself?
On another note westfield are developing a model with a honda s2000 engine that would be a formidable r400 alternative in my book. Will be intersting to compare laptimes.
And i agree 13 inch wheels are better, looks and lighter presumably, cheaper tyres etc.
I take it you guys bought your cars as kit? In that case I would have thought a car that needs some fine tuning and fettling to get i exactly as you want a good thing and not to much more work if you already built the car?
Actually not sure if you can build an r400 yourself?
On another note westfield are developing a model with a honda s2000 engine that would be a formidable r400 alternative in my book. Will be intersting to compare laptimes.
I had a pretty small budget, a Westfield was far more appealing price wise, but after driving quite a few of each the Westies just couldnt compare with the feel of the Cats, so thats the route I took.
Quite bizarre how difernet they felt, Caterhams were all just so so much nicer to drive, steering feel, handling & could certainly feel the extra weight of the Westies
One of the Westies was far better than the others & closer to a Caterhams agility & hindsight being the wonderfull thing it is, it may have been the better option for me. Cat went ages ago & I doubt I'll ever go the Cat route again for the spec I'd want its just too pricey for me, so I wouldnt count out the right spec Westie at some point.
Quite bizarre how difernet they felt, Caterhams were all just so so much nicer to drive, steering feel, handling & could certainly feel the extra weight of the Westies
One of the Westies was far better than the others & closer to a Caterhams agility & hindsight being the wonderfull thing it is, it may have been the better option for me. Cat went ages ago & I doubt I'll ever go the Cat route again for the spec I'd want its just too pricey for me, so I wouldnt count out the right spec Westie at some point.
6 years ago, when I couldn't really justify the expense of a Caterham, I bought a Westfield Megablade. It was a great car and I didn't think of it as being 2nd best although I did always think the Caterham looked just a bit more "right". Last year, when I could justify the expense I bought a Caterham S3 R300. It still looks just right, and probably is a better package but then again it was double the price.
I think another valid point is that most caterhams are built at the factory to a pretty decent standard. Where as most westfields are built as kits at home to differing standards, some brilliant, some not, depends of the ability and OCD nature of owner.
Had a westfield years ago and never really liked it especially when I needed some parts from westfield who had no idea what they had ever made or sold. I have a caterham now and couldnt be happer with it.
Had a westfield years ago and never really liked it especially when I needed some parts from westfield who had no idea what they had ever made or sold. I have a caterham now and couldnt be happer with it.
renmure said:
6 years ago, when I couldn't really justify the expense of a Caterham, I bought a Westfield Megablade. It was a great car and I didn't think of it as being 2nd best although I did always think the Caterham looked just a bit more "right". Last year, when I could justify the expense I bought a Caterham S3 R300. It still looks just right, and probably is a better package but then again it was double the price.
I take it you are skeptical that your R300 is twice the car then? 
This is my main reservation on Superlight Catherhams, the prices are starting to look a bit silly IMO. GTiFrank said:
I take it you are skeptical that your R300 is twice the car then? This is my main reservation on Superlight Catherhams, the prices are starting to look a bit silly IMO.
It would be hard to argue it is twice the car. As stated tho, I think it is certainly a far better package. This is my main reservation on Superlight Catherhams, the prices are starting to look a bit silly IMO. As for the prices, they don't really change much and the Superlights will remain very desirable, so once you can justify the initial outlay the ownership experience is a fairly safe bet for epic driving and strong residuals. Win / Win really.
GTiFrank said:
Actually not sure if you can build an r400 yourself?
On another note westfield are developing a model with a honda s2000 engine that would be a formidable r400 alternative in my book. Will be intersting to compare laptimes.
Yes, you can build any car yourself, although the R500 needs some negotiation. On another note westfield are developing a model with a honda s2000 engine that would be a formidable r400 alternative in my book. Will be intersting to compare laptimes.
The theme developing here is that the Catetham is a better 'package', albeit not the cheaper one. Going back to my own research and decision to buy a Caterham, I found the 'on paper' specs meaningless. For example the independent rear suspension should be better than the rigid Caterham, but in reality the De Doin offers a more tolerant set-up that delivers grip in a predictable and easily understood fashion (particularly on a smooth track).
The truth is the heritage does matter as 50 years of honing the design means your getting what works and, most important of all, liked by the enthusiast.
Edited by DCL on Thursday 12th April 11:46
I agree- if the De-Dion suspension was a significant hinderance, Caterham would've done away with it by now like they did the live axle 10+ years ago.
People like talking about independent suspension, pushrods, inboard shock absorbers etc (Witness Clarkson in the KTM X-Bow), but like on that particular TopGear episode, the real world benefits are subtle and there are drawbacks to consider. The R500 came out on top of the more complex, expensive and heavy X-bow.
People like talking about independent suspension, pushrods, inboard shock absorbers etc (Witness Clarkson in the KTM X-Bow), but like on that particular TopGear episode, the real world benefits are subtle and there are drawbacks to consider. The R500 came out on top of the more complex, expensive and heavy X-bow.
I have owned three Sevens:
1986 aluminium bodied Westfield Seven 1600 X-Flow
2000 Caterham Seven V/X 1600
1976 Caterham Seven Lotus T/C
The 2000 Caterham was the nicest by a margin. It was very simple to build and very well finished. Shame about that plodding Vauxhall motor.
There really wasn't anything to choose between the older Caterham and the Westfield.
I remain of the view that the Westie is a well made and competitively priced product that can be built into a very nice car.
But as they are so much cheaper, you do see many that have been poorly built down to a budget and fitted with Pintos or other inappropriate lumps.
There is no reason why a Westfield, built with love and care, cannot be as well finished as a modern Caterham.
It all boils down to whether you can live with the Tupperware bodywork and the wonky styling.
Another issue is that when built to the same standard, a Westfield isn't much cheaper than a Caterham and will certainly lose out on the depreciation front.
If I was on a seven grand budget, I would build a Westfield Mazda SDV.
If I was on a fifteen grand budget, I would build a Caterham Classic or a Westfield Eleven.
If I was on a twenty five grand budget, I wouldn't be buying either of them.
1986 aluminium bodied Westfield Seven 1600 X-Flow
2000 Caterham Seven V/X 1600
1976 Caterham Seven Lotus T/C
The 2000 Caterham was the nicest by a margin. It was very simple to build and very well finished. Shame about that plodding Vauxhall motor.
There really wasn't anything to choose between the older Caterham and the Westfield.
I remain of the view that the Westie is a well made and competitively priced product that can be built into a very nice car.
But as they are so much cheaper, you do see many that have been poorly built down to a budget and fitted with Pintos or other inappropriate lumps.
There is no reason why a Westfield, built with love and care, cannot be as well finished as a modern Caterham.
It all boils down to whether you can live with the Tupperware bodywork and the wonky styling.
Another issue is that when built to the same standard, a Westfield isn't much cheaper than a Caterham and will certainly lose out on the depreciation front.
If I was on a seven grand budget, I would build a Westfield Mazda SDV.
If I was on a fifteen grand budget, I would build a Caterham Classic or a Westfield Eleven.
If I was on a twenty five grand budget, I wouldn't be buying either of them.
HustleRussell said:
I agree- if the De-Dion suspension was a significant hinderance, Caterham would've done away with it by now like they did the live axle 10+ years ago.
People like talking about independent suspension, pushrods, inboard shock absorbers etc (Witness Clarkson in the KTM X-Bow), but like on that particular TopGear episode, the real world benefits are subtle and there are drawbacks to consider. The R500 came out on top of the more complex, expensive and heavy X-bow.
They didn't get rid of the live axle because it is a hindrance. They got rid of it because they ran out of sources for mainstream live axles.People like talking about independent suspension, pushrods, inboard shock absorbers etc (Witness Clarkson in the KTM X-Bow), but like on that particular TopGear episode, the real world benefits are subtle and there are drawbacks to consider. The R500 came out on top of the more complex, expensive and heavy X-bow.
The great thing about the live axle variants is that they could sell a budget range car that was completely in the spirit of the Lotus S3.
I know, I own one.
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