which k series engine?
Discussion
im on the lookout for a 1.8 k series to replace my 1400 EU1 k series in my supersport. are there potential pitfals in doing this? or should it be a reasonably simple conversion?
if its feasable at a reasonable cost, which engines should i be looking at? i was under the impression that most of the k series parts are interchangeable between engines, like engine mounts,exhaust,starter,alternator,oil pump, water pump,flywheel etc or is this not the case? but that vvc has different mounts, more complex security in ecu and various other things. can anyone shed some light on the possibility please?
if its feasable at a reasonable cost, which engines should i be looking at? i was under the impression that most of the k series parts are interchangeable between engines, like engine mounts,exhaust,starter,alternator,oil pump, water pump,flywheel etc or is this not the case? but that vvc has different mounts, more complex security in ecu and various other things. can anyone shed some light on the possibility please?
It is straightforward, there are a few pitfalls and caveats.
i) you will need to swap over all the external peripherals including flywheel and clutch
ii) ensure the inlet manifold matches the inlet ports on the 1800 (these can sometimes be a bit lower if the 1400 head is very early
iii) you will need to trade the injectors (if they are light blue) for a set of EU3 TF160 injectors (0280 156 024
), these will up the fuelling by just about the right amount
iv) you will need to modify the block to clear the starter
v) you will need to fit a spigot bearing and sleeve in the end of the crank and you may need to shorten the gearbox first motion shaft as the hole in the end of the 1800 crank is much more shallow
vi) if the 1800 engine is EU3 you will need to trade the cam cover and fit a spigot for the rotor arm (unless you are swapping over the 1400 cams in which case the spigot wont be required).
If you do all the above you should be able to retain the loom, engine management etc., a base 1800 would fit the bill here and this is the easiest swap.
If you are prepared to swap the engine loom and ECU then you can retain all the 1800 bits, points iv) and v) are still necessary and you will need a smaller flywheel to fit the Caterham bellhousing. The best engine for this kind of swap is the EU3 VVC 160, for which you will need the lower off side engine mounting.
Dave
i) you will need to swap over all the external peripherals including flywheel and clutch
ii) ensure the inlet manifold matches the inlet ports on the 1800 (these can sometimes be a bit lower if the 1400 head is very early
iii) you will need to trade the injectors (if they are light blue) for a set of EU3 TF160 injectors (0280 156 024
), these will up the fuelling by just about the right amount
iv) you will need to modify the block to clear the starter
v) you will need to fit a spigot bearing and sleeve in the end of the crank and you may need to shorten the gearbox first motion shaft as the hole in the end of the 1800 crank is much more shallow
vi) if the 1800 engine is EU3 you will need to trade the cam cover and fit a spigot for the rotor arm (unless you are swapping over the 1400 cams in which case the spigot wont be required).
If you do all the above you should be able to retain the loom, engine management etc., a base 1800 would fit the bill here and this is the easiest swap.
If you are prepared to swap the engine loom and ECU then you can retain all the 1800 bits, points iv) and v) are still necessary and you will need a smaller flywheel to fit the Caterham bellhousing. The best engine for this kind of swap is the EU3 VVC 160, for which you will need the lower off side engine mounting.
Dave
Edited by DVandrews on Tuesday 21st August 07:23
if i could have bought a 1800k supersport with stack dash and cage for £8.5k i would have and unfortunately i dont have unlimited funds.
i have zero experience in k series engines and there interchangeable parts and am not a mechanic. i ask for advice as and when i need it.and am not definately changing the engine! im asking for advice on the possibility of a cheap power increase and if its not possible i wont bother.
i have zero experience in k series engines and there interchangeable parts and am not a mechanic. i ask for advice as and when i need it.and am not definately changing the engine! im asking for advice on the possibility of a cheap power increase and if its not possible i wont bother.
First comment ...... you're new to Seven ownership (and K-Series engines) so just sit back and enjoy it for a while! Join the Lotus 7 Club where you'll get loads of friendly advice and it may point you in a slightly different direction than it would if you jump in feet first. Also useful to meet people face to face to get advice.
I started many years ago with a 1400SS and then bought an 1800 bottom end from Dave (DVandrews as above) - he guided me through doing a full rebuild of the engine which was fantastic support, I'd rebuilt mostly Mini engines in the past so ally blocks were totally new to me. It did however give me the confidence to rebuild my current engine myself after it's recent demise.
I say sit back and wait, simply because you need at this stage to decide where you want to be in the end ... in simplistic terms you're either looking for something upto an R300 (ie. 170bhp max, very cost effective)or R400 upwards (190bhp, depth of pocket dependent). The bit inbetween in K-Series terms is no-mans land due to falling between the 2 cylinder head formats available.
As outlined by Dave you can swap your bottom end and create an 1800SS, probably get 140bhp, very useable and a good starting place, maybe even add throttle bodies and programmable management which will take you to R300 area ... the key is this is all done retaining the "standard" Rover K16 cylinder head and pistons, hence the limit on power.
Or ... you can source a VVC engine which will give you a bigger valve head (same valves as the R400) and onwards and upwards from there.
The issue is the pistons - Dave can give you better advice on this - but as I understand it the standard 1800 pistons need to be limited to around 160bhp, Trophy 160 pistons can go a little higher, maybe 180bhp. After this you will need forged pistons to go much higher.
I set up a webpage following my conversion: http://www.superse7ens.co.uk/conversion.html - good starting point but probably needs adding to now ... things have moved on in the last decade!
Also Dave's K-Series pages provide a wealth of information that I'd suggest reading thoroughly before lifting your spanners: http://kengine.dvapower.com/
The weather's nice, do some reading and enjoy the car ... there's plenty of winter nights ahead to do what you're intending.
Stu.
I started many years ago with a 1400SS and then bought an 1800 bottom end from Dave (DVandrews as above) - he guided me through doing a full rebuild of the engine which was fantastic support, I'd rebuilt mostly Mini engines in the past so ally blocks were totally new to me. It did however give me the confidence to rebuild my current engine myself after it's recent demise.
I say sit back and wait, simply because you need at this stage to decide where you want to be in the end ... in simplistic terms you're either looking for something upto an R300 (ie. 170bhp max, very cost effective)or R400 upwards (190bhp, depth of pocket dependent). The bit inbetween in K-Series terms is no-mans land due to falling between the 2 cylinder head formats available.
As outlined by Dave you can swap your bottom end and create an 1800SS, probably get 140bhp, very useable and a good starting place, maybe even add throttle bodies and programmable management which will take you to R300 area ... the key is this is all done retaining the "standard" Rover K16 cylinder head and pistons, hence the limit on power.
Or ... you can source a VVC engine which will give you a bigger valve head (same valves as the R400) and onwards and upwards from there.
The issue is the pistons - Dave can give you better advice on this - but as I understand it the standard 1800 pistons need to be limited to around 160bhp, Trophy 160 pistons can go a little higher, maybe 180bhp. After this you will need forged pistons to go much higher.
I set up a webpage following my conversion: http://www.superse7ens.co.uk/conversion.html - good starting point but probably needs adding to now ... things have moved on in the last decade!
Also Dave's K-Series pages provide a wealth of information that I'd suggest reading thoroughly before lifting your spanners: http://kengine.dvapower.com/
The weather's nice, do some reading and enjoy the car ... there's plenty of winter nights ahead to do what you're intending.
Stu.
thanks stu. and it will be a winter project. i intend on having around 180 - 190 bhp in the end. but due to funds i will be doing it in stages,
cams and verniers seem a good upgrade at a good cost, then from there its 52mm throttle body or itbs and management!
failing that a different engine completely could be an option. zetec or duratec perhaps. but for now ill enjoy the car and drive it.
am at harewood spectating this weekend if anyone fancies a chat!
cams and verniers seem a good upgrade at a good cost, then from there its 52mm throttle body or itbs and management!
failing that a different engine completely could be an option. zetec or duratec perhaps. but for now ill enjoy the car and drive it.
am at harewood spectating this weekend if anyone fancies a chat!
You need to consider the character of each engine, and what you want from it.
The 1400SS thrives on revs. If you were to swap your supersport cams into an other wise stock 1800, you'd produce a little more power, but heaps more torque low down.
Whilst a 1400 (or 1600)supersport is happy (and safe) to rev all the way to the limiter, 1800supersports run out of puff at around 7krpm, and if you rev them more, piston strength is marginal.
The plan of upgrading in stages is often significantly more expensive that doing it in one hit.
Did I see elswhere that you were thinking of sprinting or hillclimbing? If so, its worth considering the class implications of each modification. 1400's (5 speed) can be competitive in class 1 of the Lotus 7 clubs speed championship. 1800SS competitive in class2/3 dependent on tyres. Anything else gets expensive....
The 1400SS thrives on revs. If you were to swap your supersport cams into an other wise stock 1800, you'd produce a little more power, but heaps more torque low down.
Whilst a 1400 (or 1600)supersport is happy (and safe) to rev all the way to the limiter, 1800supersports run out of puff at around 7krpm, and if you rev them more, piston strength is marginal.
The plan of upgrading in stages is often significantly more expensive that doing it in one hit.
Did I see elswhere that you were thinking of sprinting or hillclimbing? If so, its worth considering the class implications of each modification. 1400's (5 speed) can be competitive in class 1 of the Lotus 7 clubs speed championship. 1800SS competitive in class2/3 dependent on tyres. Anything else gets expensive....
mnrvortxf20c said:
am at harewood spectating this weekend if anyone fancies a chat!
Why not travel further afield this weekend and come down to Curborough. Its one of the Lotus 7 Club's main sprint events on Sunday when a lot of advice will be available and is totally made up of Lotus/Caterham 7 cars. Saturday is the Marshalls' Sprint that is also used as a practice event for Sunday for a lot of the competitiors who then camp over. The camping is free, open to all and an excellent way to meet and chat to lots of folks.i went to the harewood lc7 meet a few weeks ago but the weather spoiled the afternoon session on sunday. i took loads of pics which i have on my pc but didnt want to pester people with questions when they seemed to know each other and were deep in conversation.
i will do a conversion of some kind but just not sure what as of yet.i was un aware the 1400k was such a high revving motor and ive not had it over 6000rpm yet
im from near kendal in cumbria so about an hour from bolton! cheers guys
i will do a conversion of some kind but just not sure what as of yet.i was un aware the 1400k was such a high revving motor and ive not had it over 6000rpm yet
im from near kendal in cumbria so about an hour from bolton! cheers guys
Just introduce yourself as a new owner with a few questions and I think you will be inundated with friendly advice. As soon folks know there is a new owner around they will be very approachable, honest! 
. Actually they are always very approachable but I know what you mean if folks appear to be in deep conversation.
Maybe have a word with John Bransfield who runs the ESV and he will probably point you in the right direction of a helpful face
. Actually they are always very approachable but I know what you mean if folks appear to be in deep conversation. Maybe have a word with John Bransfield who runs the ESV and he will probably point you in the right direction of a helpful face
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