1.6 Superlight vs R300
Discussion
Seeking some information and advice from those with experience.... I'm now semi-seriously looking at Caterham ownership. I think my ideal spec would be an R300 K-series car but they are right at the top end of what I am looking to spend.
So, question is what does an R300 have going for it over and above the regular 1.6 Superlight (if anything) apart from the obvious extra 25bhp or so? And if nothing spec-wise, would you say the extra performance of the R300 is worth the ~£2-3K premium over the SL?
Use will be fast-road and possibility of occasional trackdays.
thanks for any opinions
So, question is what does an R300 have going for it over and above the regular 1.6 Superlight (if anything) apart from the obvious extra 25bhp or so? And if nothing spec-wise, would you say the extra performance of the R300 is worth the ~£2-3K premium over the SL?
Use will be fast-road and possibility of occasional trackdays.
thanks for any opinions
I have a 1.6 Superlight and believe the spec is the same. Mine is a late 2002 car, just before they launched the R300. I think it is brilliant on road as you can use all the performance without threatening your licence.
Depends what you want from your car - I have driven quite a few 7s and ended up with 140bhp as I felt that was the perfect blend of speed and road useability. Remember it is still a sub 5 sec car to 60 anyway!
Sure there will be someone along to say you need more power but each to their own etc..Either way, you will love whatever you go for.
Depends what you want from your car - I have driven quite a few 7s and ended up with 140bhp as I felt that was the perfect blend of speed and road useability. Remember it is still a sub 5 sec car to 60 anyway!
Sure there will be someone along to say you need more power but each to their own etc..Either way, you will love whatever you go for.
There may be detailed differences in spec, but the basic package of the two will likely be the same. Widetrack, LSD, big brakes, 6-speed. It all comes down to personal preferences in the end. Many (most) will go for more power over less. I like the 1600 supersport a lot and decided it was my favourite power of caterham. So you'll have to drive the two and decide which you like. I prefered the way the 1600supersport worked over the early R300 (RTBs) I tried.
I think it's more important to get the details right for your preferences. Screen or aero, "normal" seats or tillets, cage or no cage, stack dash or normal etc.
Bert
I think it's more important to get the details right for your preferences. Screen or aero, "normal" seats or tillets, cage or no cage, stack dash or normal etc.
Bert
That fact that upgradeitis so often sets in is making me lean towards stretching to an R300. Having waited so long for a Caterham, I don't really want to be wanting for more power after a year or so.
There also appears to be different characteristics in the way the more torquey 1.8 from the R300 delivers its power compared to the rev-happy 1.6 - this will make me think long and hard about the exact type of use the car will get, and what the balance is likely to be between extended touring, dawn blats and trackdays. Hmmm....
Having said all that, I'll probably just get overexcited and buy the first Caterham-shaped thing I see!
There also appears to be different characteristics in the way the more torquey 1.8 from the R300 delivers its power compared to the rev-happy 1.6 - this will make me think long and hard about the exact type of use the car will get, and what the balance is likely to be between extended touring, dawn blats and trackdays. Hmmm....
Having said all that, I'll probably just get overexcited and buy the first Caterham-shaped thing I see!
Edited by Mostro on Tuesday 4th September 14:23
The 1.6 is an absolute screamer, I think they're perfect for the character of the car. Mine's an old Vauxhall-engined car with 100bhp and I have driven a range of cars on track from my own race car up to an R300 duratec.
A 1.6 will not embarass you on a trackday, and like others up there ^ I don't think you need much more than 140bhp for road use.
A 1.6 will not embarass you on a trackday, and like others up there ^ I don't think you need much more than 140bhp for road use.
I have a 1.6K Superlight as well and as SidewaysSi has said it is great for the road 
You can "flow" very nicely along the road in a 7 like this as it allows you to really drive the car and use the performance.
I have a friend with a 1.8K 140bhp 7 and he recently drove an R300 1.8k and really struggled to notice any difference. When the 2 of us have been out "with the big boys"
in their R500's we've all had fun blatting along sensibly on the road.
Go with what suits you but I can't see that you'd be disappointed with an SL compared to an R300, both will bring you a lot of fun
You can "flow" very nicely along the road in a 7 like this as it allows you to really drive the car and use the performance.
I have a friend with a 1.8K 140bhp 7 and he recently drove an R300 1.8k and really struggled to notice any difference. When the 2 of us have been out "with the big boys"
in their R500's we've all had fun blatting along sensibly on the road.Go with what suits you but I can't see that you'd be disappointed with an SL compared to an R300, both will bring you a lot of fun
Was happy with VVC for about 4 years- great engine if quite flat in its power delivery , unlike the ultra peaky 1.4SS which preceded it. Opportunity enabled R400D purchase - and that was terrific but roller barrel conversion has made it all I will ever want. I think... Shame I can't drive it because of my f***ing back- so spend too much time on bloody web forums...
Try and have extended drives in both if you can- I'm guessing the caterham factory is the only way that will happen.
One of my favourite road caterhams was a 1400ss with 6 speed box, short diff and light flywheel. More than adequately fast enough for any road I ever took it down and within half a second of my superlight round the old anglesey.
I upgraded my superlight to r300 160 trophy vvc spec (same as the later non roller barrel r300's) and the extra power was very noticeable but completely unnecesary for anything other than doing skids.
As always, buy what you can afford and buy on condition - you can always upgrade later / sell on / swop etc. if you get bored.
I think tyres and set up are potentially more important than what engine it's got.
One of my favourite road caterhams was a 1400ss with 6 speed box, short diff and light flywheel. More than adequately fast enough for any road I ever took it down and within half a second of my superlight round the old anglesey.
I upgraded my superlight to r300 160 trophy vvc spec (same as the later non roller barrel r300's) and the extra power was very noticeable but completely unnecesary for anything other than doing skids.
As always, buy what you can afford and buy on condition - you can always upgrade later / sell on / swop etc. if you get bored.
I think tyres and set up are potentially more important than what engine it's got.
mickrick said:
Don't think going for the R300 won't leave you wanting more power after a year.
I did just that. Bought a brand new K series R300 VVC.
After a year, I wanted more power......
Funny thing is one year on I haven't felt the need, could easily have bought an R400/R500 but chose to have something more modest.I did just that. Bought a brand new K series R300 VVC.
After a year, I wanted more power......
I'm not saying that I'm not tempted by an R400 or R500 but I don't feel that a pile more power is going to make my driving experience all the more fun. Each to their own I suppose
My friend had an Atom 245 and a 997 GT3 prior to his 140bhp 7, the Atom was a weapon, significantly quicker than anything else.
Funny thing is he finds the 7 the most fun to drive
There are lots of folk that have worked there way up the Caterham ladder and have found that the car they had in 140-160bhp range was the most fun for the road
Competitive driving has shown me that it takes a very long time to exploit the full potential of even a low powered car. In Caterhams, the fun happens between the straights and so long as you have the power/grip ratio right, any 7 will be massively entertaining. The cheapest and most effective performance upgrade is driver improvement.
Token Jock said:
There are lots of folk that have worked there way up the Caterham ladder and have found that the car they had in 140-160bhp range was the most fun for the road
Yep done exactly that. 2.0 vxi to slr to (k)r500. Then 1600 exec superlight which was best of all on road or track.Bert
I have had a 150bhp VVC and a CSR260. I agree that 150bhp has all that you need for on the road use, but as I also used it for trackdays and sprints, I wanted more power:
A) to get past the turbo barges on the straights that crawl round the corners but don't back off enough to let you past and
B) to be more competitive in the class I ran in (engines >1600, no power limit).
I am also 120kg so power is a help!
The key point is that the superlight is all you NEED, but do you WANT the R300?
Steve
A) to get past the turbo barges on the straights that crawl round the corners but don't back off enough to let you past and
B) to be more competitive in the class I ran in (engines >1600, no power limit).
I am also 120kg so power is a help!
The key point is that the superlight is all you NEED, but do you WANT the R300?
Steve
kenno78 said:
The R300 is in a different league to the superlight. You must buy a R300k. Have i mentioned i have one for sale? 
Haha Which/link please?sjmmarsh said:
The key point is that the superlight is all you NEED, but do you WANT the R300?
Steve
That is indeed the question, Sir, and frankly very hard to answer without just getting one and finding out!Steve
It is all about want and not need- to have fun in any Seven 100bhp will do fine. But 160 bhp is slightly more fun and 220 is even funnier. Nowt to do with on track stuff for me- if I was serious about track days I think I should start thinking about racing rather than playing at it and mistakenly thinking I am a driving god because I once passed a GT2(it was being driiven very slowly ).And of course you don't need - or want - to put your foot down all the time; but the more you've got the more exhilarating it is when you do.
Token Jock said:
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There are lots of folk that have worked there way up the Caterham ladder and have found that the car they had in140-160bhp175-200bhp range was the most fun for the road
I came from 275bhp 964RS to 138bhp Supersport. After I had learnt to drive the car, I found that it wasn't fast enough on the road or track. Since I was aware that upgrades rarely translate into value when it comes to selling a car on, I sold it and bought a 190 bhp Superlight R400. That ticked all the boxes with just the right amount of power to not overwhelm the chassis, but enough to make overtaking on the road a lot safer.There are lots of folk that have worked there way up the Caterham ladder and have found that the car they had in
Save your pennies/finance a Duratec R300 - the absolute best Caterham for a combination of road and track use IMHO
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