Anybody know this R500?.
Discussion
Expensive,they are not worth that kind of money when 5k more will get you a Duratec R500. Stick another 5000 miles on that R500 and I couldn't see you finding a buyer without refreshing the motor which will be around 5k.
R400 Duratec is more usable to be honest and much more reliable, TBH the best of all worlds is the R300 duratec.
My personal favorite on the road is the old K series roadsport A spec though.....cracking road car.
R400 Duratec is more usable to be honest and much more reliable, TBH the best of all worlds is the R300 duratec.
My personal favorite on the road is the old K series roadsport A spec though.....cracking road car.
If i was going to take a punt on it, and i really would have short on choices and long on money I would think 16-17k.
End of the day it is a race engine that has done less than 1k a year and everything else is over a decade old - it isn't a car you are going to be able to pull out of the gargage when the weather is great and give it some pain without tons of niggles - and you still have pinless grenade under the bonnet.
There is an R500esque SV in PH classifieds which will give you tons of reliable smiles for the same money.
End of the day it is a race engine that has done less than 1k a year and everything else is over a decade old - it isn't a car you are going to be able to pull out of the gargage when the weather is great and give it some pain without tons of niggles - and you still have pinless grenade under the bonnet.
There is an R500esque SV in PH classifieds which will give you tons of reliable smiles for the same money.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/4195187.htm
Have a look at this one. Belongs to a friend of mine and is probably the best cared for car I have ever seen. He is OCD about it. It shows though as it has always been 100% reliable.
Have a look at this one. Belongs to a friend of mine and is probably the best cared for car I have ever seen. He is OCD about it. It shows though as it has always been 100% reliable.
James.S said:
If i was going to take a punt on it, and i really would have short on choices and long on money I would think 16-17k.
End of the day it is a race engine that has done less than 1k a year and everything else is over a decade old - it isn't a car you are going to be able to pull out of the gargage when the weather is great and give it some pain without tons of niggles - and you still have pinless grenade under the bonnet.
There is an R500esque SV in PH classifieds which will give you tons of reliable smiles for the same money.
Cheers James I think the message is sinking in)-:End of the day it is a race engine that has done less than 1k a year and everything else is over a decade old - it isn't a car you are going to be able to pull out of the gargage when the weather is great and give it some pain without tons of niggles - and you still have pinless grenade under the bonnet.
There is an R500esque SV in PH classifieds which will give you tons of reliable smiles for the same money.
As I said earlier there is a deal to be done on this car and the r500espue car is above my budget.
I'm a poor builder(-:
Edited by sone on Tuesday 18th September 20:18
James.S said:
If i was going to take a punt on it, and i really would have short on choices and long on money I would think 16-17k.
End of the day it is a race engine that has done less than 1k a year and everything else is over a decade old - it isn't a car you are going to be able to pull out of the gargage when the weather is great and give it some pain without tons of niggles - and you still have pinless grenade under the bonnet.
There is an R500esque SV in PH classifieds which will give you tons of reliable smiles for the same money.
Hmm... don't think I've ever seen a genuine R500 for 16k regardless of miles or condition. The SV isn't an original car and it's suffering from a bit of an identity crisis with the mish-mash spec hence why it hasn't been snapped up... in my opinion of course.End of the day it is a race engine that has done less than 1k a year and everything else is over a decade old - it isn't a car you are going to be able to pull out of the gargage when the weather is great and give it some pain without tons of niggles - and you still have pinless grenade under the bonnet.
There is an R500esque SV in PH classifieds which will give you tons of reliable smiles for the same money.
Genuine Superlights have and will always hold their value well.
James.S said:
If i was going to take a punt on it, and i really would have short on choices and long on money I would think 16-17k.
End of the day it is a race engine that has done less than 1k a year and everything else is over a decade old - it isn't a car you are going to be able to pull out of the gargage when the weather is great and give it some pain without tons of niggles - and you still have pinless grenade under the bonnet.
There is an R500esque SV in PH classifieds which will give you tons of reliable smiles for the same money.
What on earth are you talking about? Where are these tons of niggles going to come from?End of the day it is a race engine that has done less than 1k a year and everything else is over a decade old - it isn't a car you are going to be able to pull out of the gargage when the weather is great and give it some pain without tons of niggles - and you still have pinless grenade under the bonnet.
There is an R500esque SV in PH classifieds which will give you tons of reliable smiles for the same money.
Nerra said:
Hmm... don't think I've ever seen a genuine R500 for 16k regardless of miles or condition. The SV isn't an original car and it's suffering from a bit of an identity crisis with the mish-mash spec hence why it hasn't been snapped up... in my opinion of course.
Genuine Superlights have and will always hold their value well.
There have been quite a few, cheapest i havebeen offered was 16k including a trailer, at least another three that have been late teens.Genuine Superlights have and will always hold their value well.
Problem with the R500 K series fragile engine now is with Minister going tits up who is going to look after them. You can get other builders to refresh/rebuild but none will have the perception, rightly or wrongly, of Ministers provenance assoiated with this model.
Someone pilling 25k on her and using it properly is a brave boy indeed, however, if you can get it for high teens your not doing bad.
Just want to make sure your eyes are open - she is highly strung and that comes at a price.
Edited by James.S on Tuesday 18th September 22:39
but what about all those other niggles you mention?
I also think there are plenty of k-builders out there who have enough provenance. It's not a hard engine to rebuild. Some amateur who uses my garage seems to have quite a good track record in high power k's.
Yes they have some well known potential issues, but you seem to be making out that there's something really big and nasty about owning and running a k-r500. And I don't think there is.
Bert
I also think there are plenty of k-builders out there who have enough provenance. It's not a hard engine to rebuild. Some amateur who uses my garage seems to have quite a good track record in high power k's.
Yes they have some well known potential issues, but you seem to be making out that there's something really big and nasty about owning and running a k-r500. And I don't think there is.
Bert
[quote=James.S]
There have been quite a few, cheapest i havebeen offered was 16k including a trailer, at least another three that have been late teens.
[quote]
If this was the silver/purple car on sale a couple of years ago, to say it was 'careworn' would be somewhat of an understatement!
I saw that car and it was a full on track slag with barely a part that didn't need refurbishing or replacing in my opinion.
Like with everything in life, you get what you pay for.
There have been quite a few, cheapest i havebeen offered was 16k including a trailer, at least another three that have been late teens.
[quote]
If this was the silver/purple car on sale a couple of years ago, to say it was 'careworn' would be somewhat of an understatement!
I saw that car and it was a full on track slag with barely a part that didn't need refurbishing or replacing in my opinion.
Like with everything in life, you get what you pay for.
There's more spec changes over standard to the R500K than just the engine! Plus ... the 4000 mile rebuild requirement was based upon the original rev limit set at 9000, later cars had it reduced. There's plenty of builders around that can do a refresh anyway - the most important aspect is the oil system and as long as the dry sump pump is maintained at sensible intervals (eg. every 2 years) the engine should be free from woes. Steel crank, forged pistons, solid followers and a well built unit should fair very well, there's certainly not scare stories of them going pop any more than other k-series. A high powered K is probably the best match to a Caterham that's possible.
Also the spec should be 230bhp which in K development terms is not so high these days and teh spec of teh engine is actually in excess of what 230bhp demands. If you can find an R500 that's not a complete dog for less than £20K snap it up quick.
Also the spec should be 230bhp which in K development terms is not so high these days and teh spec of teh engine is actually in excess of what 230bhp demands. If you can find an R500 that's not a complete dog for less than £20K snap it up quick.
B@W]ames.S said:
There have been quite a few, cheapest i havebeen offered was 16k including a trailer, at least another three that have been late teens.
[quote]
If this was the silver/purple car on sale a couple of years ago, to say it was 'careworn' would be somewhat of an understatement!
I saw that car and it was a full on track slag with barely a part that didn't need refurbishing or replacing in my opinion.
Like with everything in life, you get what you pay for.
Don't remember seeing a purple one but could be the one that BAT had one for sale on behalf of a customer. Sure it was housed at Anglesey full time. I think that was rough but priced around 14k ISTR but that was a good while ago.[quote]
If this was the silver/purple car on sale a couple of years ago, to say it was 'careworn' would be somewhat of an understatement!
I saw that car and it was a full on track slag with barely a part that didn't need refurbishing or replacing in my opinion.
Like with everything in life, you get what you pay for.
My point to OP was that he should be aware the R500K is an expensive bit of kit. The engine has been properly squeezed and requires proper money to refresh or rebuild it when required. And it will be required. Refreshes on a 500 where around 5-6k ISTR form Minister.
Don't think i have slagged the car off, just commenting on price and running costs - it was a great car in its day.
Edited by James.S on Wednesday 19th September 09:28
V7SLR said:
There's more spec changes over standard to the R500K than just the engine! Plus ... the 4000 mile rebuild requirement was based upon the original rev limit set at 9000, later cars had it reduced. There's plenty of builders around that can do a refresh anyway - the most important aspect is the oil system and as long as the dry sump pump is maintained at sensible intervals (eg. every 2 years) the engine should be free from woes. Steel crank, forged pistons, solid followers and a well built unit should fair very well, there's certainly not scare stories of them going pop any more than other k-series. A high powered K is probably the best match to a Caterham that's possible.
Also the spec should be 230bhp which in K development terms is not so high these days and teh spec of teh engine is actually in excess of what 230bhp demands. If you can find an R500 that's not a complete dog for less than £20K snap it up quick.
Apart from the engine I am not sure there was that much difference between R400/500 other than aero wishbones was there? Mine where pretty much the same although it is a while ago.Also the spec should be 230bhp which in K development terms is not so high these days and teh spec of teh engine is actually in excess of what 230bhp demands. If you can find an R500 that's not a complete dog for less than £20K snap it up quick.
As to them not going pop, i don't agree. They had issues with a lot of engines. Yes turning hte rev limit down helped but that is not really a fix now is it? And honesly i can't remember the last time i saw an R500K having its neck rung round a circuit.......i think this has more to do with you not hearing about blown engines in recent years.
V7SLR said:
There's more spec changes over standard to the R500K than just the engine! Plus ... the 4000 mile rebuild requirement was based upon the original rev limit set at 9000, later cars had it reduced. There's plenty of builders around that can do a refresh anyway - the most important aspect is the oil system and as long as the dry sump pump is maintained at sensible intervals (eg. every 2 years) the engine should be free from woes. Steel crank, forged pistons, solid followers and a well built unit should fair very well, there's certainly not scare stories of them going pop any more than other k-series. A high powered K is probably the best match to a Caterham that's possible.
Also the spec should be 230bhp which in K development terms is not so high these days and teh spec of teh engine is actually in excess of what 230bhp demands. If you can find an R500 that's not a complete dog for less than £20K snap it up quick.
Well said.Also the spec should be 230bhp which in K development terms is not so high these days and teh spec of teh engine is actually in excess of what 230bhp demands. If you can find an R500 that's not a complete dog for less than £20K snap it up quick.
The 3k refresh interval as I remember was track miles not normal road miles.
I remember looking at 996 GT3's a few years ago when they were circa 30k. Loads of people said it was impossible to find a good one and that they had all been tracked to death and that the values were going to fall like the 996TT etc etc. Well 5 years on and values have steadily increased.
The k-R500 was legendary when it came out and will always be highly regarded and therefore will hold its value. That holds true for any original Superlight. Even standard Superlights haven't dropped below the 15k mark and it's been like that for a few years now.
I think the OP understands the nature of high performance engines. The more highly strung they are then generally the more they need to be maintained. There are also warming procedures etc that go a long way to prolonging the life of these engines.
Totally agree Nerra. OK the one referenced by the OP at Caterham may have the usual slight mark up, as you'd expect from a business but my hunch is it will be great motor.
Also agree that the original R500k is an icon, one of the few 7s that will always command a premium. As James said..........for circa 5k more you can virtually get a more recent R500D......why's that then, has to be a reason?
The day will come soon when the prices of the original R500 and the later Ford one will be equal on the second hand market.
At the end of the day it depends what the buyer wants to use the car for...........I agree I'd not want to be competing in it or continually thrashing it around on trackdays.....but since I've packed in with all that, as a road car an original R500 is a great buy, and money in the bank IMHO.
I've yet to see a goodun for sub 20k
Also agree that the original R500k is an icon, one of the few 7s that will always command a premium. As James said..........for circa 5k more you can virtually get a more recent R500D......why's that then, has to be a reason?
The day will come soon when the prices of the original R500 and the later Ford one will be equal on the second hand market.
At the end of the day it depends what the buyer wants to use the car for...........I agree I'd not want to be competing in it or continually thrashing it around on trackdays.....but since I've packed in with all that, as a road car an original R500 is a great buy, and money in the bank IMHO.
I've yet to see a goodun for sub 20k
I bought a VHPD R400 (220BHP) engine last year for mine and had it 'refreshed' for about £1200 .. it hasn't missed a beat in 12000 miles this year (touch wood, it's in France with me at the moment), including 5 track days.
The service on my MK 5 Golf cost over £700 and it didn't need anything doing to it bar a cambelt!
The service on my MK 5 Golf cost over £700 and it didn't need anything doing to it bar a cambelt!
kenny.R400 said:
At the end of the day it depends what the buyer wants to use the car for...........I agree I'd not want to be competing in it or continually thrashing it around on trackdays.....but since I've packed in with all that, as a road car an original R500 is a great buy, and money in the bank IMHO.
I've yet to see a goodun for sub 20k
Agree with you and Nerra, I have a R400 K I do not track it and tend to tour in it, use it for high days and holidays, Have it serviced at the factory keeping it well maintained and in good condition if and when I sell it whoever gets it will have one original well maintained car I suspect there a others who have R500's and do much the same but clearly these will be far and few between. I've yet to see a goodun for sub 20k
FWIW, I have one of the last factory R500k's which has barely missed a beat in my 5 years of ownership with a mix a trackdays and fast road use, other than the clutch release bearing breaking up at Donnington
If you get into a good R500k with your eyes open, they're a great toy.
Love mine and have no intention of selling anytime soon but if you're looking at only a £5k price difference then I would go for the piece of mind that the R500D may bring.
If you get into a good R500k with your eyes open, they're a great toy.
Love mine and have no intention of selling anytime soon but if you're looking at only a £5k price difference then I would go for the piece of mind that the R500D may bring.
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