Bike Engined 7 with De-Dion

[sam919]

Been reading up on the fireblade and BEC caterhams and they use the live axle right? apart from the weight advantage of the live axle, has anyone done a conversion using a De-dion set-up for a bike engine?

[Tango7]

Caterham blackbirds are all de Dion cars plus the hyabusa cars (built for Canadian market by Caterham) that have either been converted or built from new kits are de Dion cars too

[dsl2]

Yes lots of us out there with Busa power and DD.

Live axle unless massively modified wouldn't cope with the thrap of the Busa motor

[sam919]

Nice thanks for the info. I couldnt seem to find any solid info about DD and BEC.

Whats the general concensous with upgraded clutches, springs etc for high powered units? i used to run a fury with a 919cc blade engine, and all i was adivsed apart from jetting was a standard clutch and barnet springs.

[rubystone]

Tango, see thread on blatchat for sale section re fireblade...needs your comment....

[Snake the Sniper]

Whilst not specifically Caterham related, for the Blackbird lump the later clutch basket has a lot more fingers in it than the earlier one. My old kit would snap the fingers off the earlier baskets easily, but a swap to the later version cured it. I ran stock plates and springs with no problem what so ever, but as with the 'blade uprated springs are an option. There's no need for different plates on an otherwise standard engine.

[dsl2]

For Busa's nothing more required than the £40 uprated springs for the clutch, I know of a few cars that have done many seasons of hill climbing using that arrangement with no issues.

Saying that I did specify a billet clutch basket for the 1548cc motor as it cost quite a bit anyway so thought why not go belt & braces!

[sam919]

Thanks for the info. I need to have a look at some bike engined cars at some point to remind myself about it all. Who was he guy in the Mag 7's who had a busa, green car? i saw it at Spa a couple of years ago, seemed rapid although the race was a wash out literally and red flagged, i parked it in the pits and the sun came out!!

I take it the existing drive shaft can have a short one attached to connect it to the gearbox output from the bike engine, i had a plate that fitted over the spline and bolted to the end of the drive shaft that went aft? is the a mount then to support all this in the tunnel?

[DaveK-S1]

Sam
You either use a prop with a centre bearing which mounts on the original gearbox mounting plate and use an electric reverse or use a reverse gearbox which mounts in the same place , and has prop either side.

It all fits neatly in the tunnel.

Doug Newman has the green/black busa car.

[Snake the Sniper]

Whilst not overly convenient, do you need a reverse gear? In 4 years of owning my BEC I very rarely needed to go backwards with some thought put into parking. That or doughnuts will get you out of most places and save a fair chunk of cash into the bargain.

[sam919]

Thanks for the info.

My fury used a starter motor that engaged with the toothed plated inbetween propr and gearbox spline, but i see on the nova website a nice purpose buit unit, bit more pro looking!! I'm sure with the RGB series you had to have a reverse gear, but it might not be the case with any others, save a bit of weight.

The bearing on the gearbox mount makes sense, a good way of controlling the prop incase the joints failed, ive heard some horror stories of this and broken legs!

What a realstic weight for a busa car?

[SimonRogers]

470 - 480kg depending on cage/fia bar, tyres/wheel choices.

[pikeyboy]

The blue book says you need a reverse method for a BEC, when circuit racing at least, hill climbs may be more lax. Upto you how you do it, I have a nova box in my fireblade 7, they arent that heavy really compared to an elctric motor although you might be able to ditch some yokes out of the prop as well if you didnt have it.

[sam919]

Thanks for that, to be honest Ive never been asked even with fury to engage and use the reverse gear, but typical if I didn't include one.

The car is weighing in at 510 at the moment with full cage, the duratec lump is 101kg plus the box which is 26kg so 127kg, 383kg plus the new bits and bobs, surely cant be close to 100kg for a busa lump? are they that heavy?

[SimonRogers]

My Car SLR K with Elite Box and paddle shift system, SLR cage and V70's was 512kg

I saved 45kg but remember it has paddle shift as previously and a rather substantial Elite Reverse box.

[Snake the Sniper]

I can pick up and move a Blackbird lump on my own easily, and the Busa is only a little bit bigger/heavier so I would expect it to be less than 100kgs.

Google shows a possible dry weight of 70 kgs for what I assume is a bare engine.

[JeffC]

few lads with westys have ditched the busa motor and gone with the latest blade engine, they have weights down to close to / and the odd car under 400kg I would expect a Caterham to be lighter as its a smaller car to start with.