first caterham wannabee questions
Discussion
Hello everyone. I am Dutch, and I am looking for a Caterham 7. I have been an avid Nürburgring rider for 30 years, but unfortunately motorcycles are now banned and I am experiencing withdrawal symptoms, so I want to try it on four wheels. Since there are exactly two Caterhams for sale in my country, and buying one from England would be an expensive nightmare to import, I am looking in Germany. Prices are high right now; for instance, a 2005 Caterham K Series 1.6 costs about 30,000 euros. And since these are private sales without guarantees or assurances, I am doing my research thoroughly. I have two questions about older Caterhams: what should I look out for with an older Caterham regarding wear and tear and minor issues? And secondly, if, for example, I buy a 2004 K-Series 1600 with low mileage and I want to ride it on tracks a lot, do I need to replace a lot compared to the standard equipment? I understand that shock absorbers and brakes can always be improved and that is no problem, but is the list of must-do upgrades long or is the car track bulletproof? I come from supersport motorcycles with over 200 hp on the Nürburgring, but I have zero experience with four wheels except doing 1 lap over the nurburgring when it rained in my old merceded c220 diesel going grannypace . so i have no idea but m gonna learn
Motorbikes are banned from tourist laps, but there are other options. I have booked two days with Motorrad magazine in July.
Otherwise I like your idea. If I could advise you of anything, it would be to get some limit driver training in a Caterham before you tackle the Nordschleife… or you accept that you will drive it sub limit around there.
Otherwise I like your idea. If I could advise you of anything, it would be to get some limit driver training in a Caterham before you tackle the Nordschleife… or you accept that you will drive it sub limit around there.
yes i also booked 2 days , but with the docsholl organisation , lets hope we both get dry days ! yes i am planning to do courses , and i will do them before i hit the nordschleife because i know nothing bout 4 wheels and im better off learning it the right way before developing wrong or bad habits .
Glad to hear that. I think you will have speed perception and throttle control advantages coming from your bike riding experience.
I am also looking to buy a Caterham in Germany, for just general driving fun, rather than track focus. I live in a good driving area, with good weather and I drove the old rover engined ones, with the six speed gearbox on track a lot and really enjoyed it. I have too many motorbikes though and the Caterham prices in Germany seem high for what is a toy.
Maybe our paths will cross at some point, who knows!
I am also looking to buy a Caterham in Germany, for just general driving fun, rather than track focus. I live in a good driving area, with good weather and I drove the old rover engined ones, with the six speed gearbox on track a lot and really enjoyed it. I have too many motorbikes though and the Caterham prices in Germany seem high for what is a toy.
Maybe our paths will cross at some point, who knows!
It sounds like you’re going to have some great fun!
Q1 the great advantage of all older cars is that not only have the problems been found, but also the solutions. The K series engine had some issues (head gasket etc) but there is now a lot of specialist knowledge on how to solve this
Q2 I guess a 2005 Caterham came with Bilstein dampers. Which depending on use may have been replaced/ need replacing. You can of course transform a car with better brakes and dampers, but, the standard ones are all good for track use. I race a Caterham on standard dampers and with pads from a Ford Escort on the rear (would like to invest in better dampers when funds allow)
Enjoy learning how to use it
Q1 the great advantage of all older cars is that not only have the problems been found, but also the solutions. The K series engine had some issues (head gasket etc) but there is now a lot of specialist knowledge on how to solve this
Q2 I guess a 2005 Caterham came with Bilstein dampers. Which depending on use may have been replaced/ need replacing. You can of course transform a car with better brakes and dampers, but, the standard ones are all good for track use. I race a Caterham on standard dampers and with pads from a Ford Escort on the rear (would like to invest in better dampers when funds allow)
Enjoy learning how to use it
womblecate tnx for your input . i thought so about suspension , how about the gearboxes and diffs , they last or when semi-raced need a lot of attention or repacement you think ? do you think the radiator/cooling system stock in a k series can coop with the heat or is that something that needs upgrading too ?
kawasicki are you german biker then ? if so then our paths probably already crossed , i was mostly racing ducatis , and im a short bald dutch guy )
kawasicki are you german biker then ? if so then our paths probably already crossed , i was mostly racing ducatis , and im a short bald dutch guy )
ferr said:
kawasicki are you german biker then ? if so then our paths probably already crossed , i was mostly racing ducatis , and im a short bald dutch guy )
No, I’m not German, I’m Irish… but haven’t lived there for well over 30 years. I live in southern Germany, I’ve done no motorbike racing and a little bit of car racing, at the Nürburgring. My job, vehicle dynamics tuning, had me working there a lot too.I have an old Ducati 999 that I am planning to ride at the Ring! I also did a fun side “gig” for Ducati Germany, running in their press bikes, so I have ridden a few of the modern ones also.
I’m sorry, but, the answer on diffs and gearbox has to be “depends”.
Mostly they’re bullet proof considering the very low loads you’re putting them through. Aside from sequential boxes they are simple and cheap to rebuild.
I only have experience with a Ford box and BMW diff. The former has pounded round track for years, yet, needed two rebuilds last year. We checked the diff torque last weekend and after years it’s still at the upper limit of what some classes would allow.
Mostly they’re bullet proof considering the very low loads you’re putting them through. Aside from sequential boxes they are simple and cheap to rebuild.
I only have experience with a Ford box and BMW diff. The former has pounded round track for years, yet, needed two rebuilds last year. We checked the diff torque last weekend and after years it’s still at the upper limit of what some classes would allow.
https://youtu.be/lY90DSXOLj8?si=fpl0Bl93TXKwV7Rj
I was at the Ring a couple of weeks ago in my 1.6K Supersport - 135bhp. No issues at all with cooling, and it was very warm, around 28 degrees! I have the standard radiator on my car. In terms of brakes, I have the 4-pot/vented disk setup on the front, standard brakes on the rear - Ferodo DS2500 pads all round. To be honest, you'd be fine with the standard brakes. Coming from bikes, I think you'll miss the straight line speed, especially on the long uphill drag out of Bergwerk - the Caterham aerodynamics don't help either
I was at the Ring a couple of weeks ago in my 1.6K Supersport - 135bhp. No issues at all with cooling, and it was very warm, around 28 degrees! I have the standard radiator on my car. In terms of brakes, I have the 4-pot/vented disk setup on the front, standard brakes on the rear - Ferodo DS2500 pads all round. To be honest, you'd be fine with the standard brakes. Coming from bikes, I think you'll miss the straight line speed, especially on the long uphill drag out of Bergwerk - the Caterham aerodynamics don't help either
i watched your video forzagilles , nice lap ( thought you almost lost it at hatzenbach lol ) . so you have a stock supersport 1.6 k series minus upgraded brakes ? what i noticed is that most onboards you hear a diff or a gearbox singing ( dont knwo wich ) but yours doesnt have that .
i know i will miss the bike speed but it is what it is . im new to 4 wheels and i got a feeling being so low to the ground at the ring , it will feel faster , besides i lived for the ring in summer for half my life , and now we are banned , and im sick of still going there to sit with my ringbuddys in leathers watching cars at brunchen . so im keen to buy , learn and become faster .
i know i will miss the bike speed but it is what it is . im new to 4 wheels and i got a feeling being so low to the ground at the ring , it will feel faster , besides i lived for the ring in summer for half my life , and now we are banned , and im sick of still going there to sit with my ringbuddys in leathers watching cars at brunchen . so im keen to buy , learn and become faster .
ferr said:
i watched your video forzagilles , nice lap ( thought you almost lost it at hatzenbach lol ) . so you have a stock supersport 1.6 k series minus upgraded brakes ? what i noticed is that most onboards you hear a diff or a gearbox singing ( dont knwo wich ) but yours doesnt have that .
i know i will miss the bike speed but it is what it is . im new to 4 wheels and i got a feeling being so low to the ground at the ring , it will feel faster , besides i lived for the ring in summer for half my life , and now we are banned , and im sick of still going there to sit with my ringbuddys in leathers watching cars at brunchen . so im keen to buy , learn and become faster .
Thanks. The engine is stock other than Vernier cam pulleys and a 52mm Throttle Body. I have also an anti-cav tank fitted for a bit more protection - a dry sump system is expensive and probably overkill for the engine/car spec. I have wide track front suspension, and adjustable platforms all round - both very common fitment to Caterhams. There is plenty of diff/gearbox noise, mainly diff, but you get used to it i know i will miss the bike speed but it is what it is . im new to 4 wheels and i got a feeling being so low to the ground at the ring , it will feel faster , besides i lived for the ring in summer for half my life , and now we are banned , and im sick of still going there to sit with my ringbuddys in leathers watching cars at brunchen . so im keen to buy , learn and become faster .
It does seem unfair to bikers to ban them altogether - I don't know why bike only sessions can't be held?
thanx for talking me trough this forzagilles . you mention adjustable platforms , that is for ride height adjustment ? and another part wich i cant find the english word for , the iron frame where the wheelhub and suspension is attached to , when you dont chane them out to widetrack , will the stock ones do ? they look so fragile to me but im a biker still and a truckbuilder by trade so that might be why )) . yes they banned bikes and stated it was too dangerous . but i know a lot of people in the area and a few who work for the ring , and aparently they were thinking of banning bikes for years now . the true reason is that theres many bike accidents over oilspills and that means closures and no money for them , aswell as there are quite a few fatalities at the ring , way more then we ever hear off , often not in the news even . and that draws attention and sooner or later politicians will have a say and potentialy end the ring as we know it . tnx for your input i apreciate it a lot
edit , heres a vid of a summernight lap back when we thought the fun would never end )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTGxkVZGaR0
edit , heres a vid of a summernight lap back when we thought the fun would never end )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTGxkVZGaR0
Edited by ferr on Tuesday 9th June 16:29
Wow. Ferr that video is mesmerizing, I couldn't cope with that much adrenaline.
Yes, they are very sensitive to adjustments in tire pressures, ride heights and stiffness. The basic Caterham platform can easily be adjusted for ride height, stiffness (front to rear) and changing the ARBs (anti roll bars) e.g. dry to damp to wet.
The front double wishbones (holding the suspension) are commonly changed from the standard narrow track to a wide track. However, the kit does cost and will only shave tenths of any lap times, then, you can get into spending thousands on better dampers, before you move on to more power. Assuming the standard bilsteins are still in good work order, you may want to make little changes to what you've got...
To begin with you will feel the biggest effects from tire pressures, better tires (genuinely excited to try the new Nova tires), setting the stiffness of the ARBs to match conditions, getting the rake right (ride height front to back), changing the camber and toe, then we can move on to getting the car flat floored.
The basic settings are all online, normally you would want to set it up and only change one or two elements at a time, this may be more time consuming with a longer lap.
Yes, they are very sensitive to adjustments in tire pressures, ride heights and stiffness. The basic Caterham platform can easily be adjusted for ride height, stiffness (front to rear) and changing the ARBs (anti roll bars) e.g. dry to damp to wet.
The front double wishbones (holding the suspension) are commonly changed from the standard narrow track to a wide track. However, the kit does cost and will only shave tenths of any lap times, then, you can get into spending thousands on better dampers, before you move on to more power. Assuming the standard bilsteins are still in good work order, you may want to make little changes to what you've got...
To begin with you will feel the biggest effects from tire pressures, better tires (genuinely excited to try the new Nova tires), setting the stiffness of the ARBs to match conditions, getting the rake right (ride height front to back), changing the camber and toe, then we can move on to getting the car flat floored.
The basic settings are all online, normally you would want to set it up and only change one or two elements at a time, this may be more time consuming with a longer lap.
Thinking of it. If I were based in Holland, a day or two at Spa would be perfect for getting the car setup right.
A great mix of slow and fast corners, you get heat into the tires in 1 or 2 laps, do a few laps, then adjust the pressures, see how that feels. Then adjust the stiffness/ rake see how that feels. If you're capable with the spanners and string (I'm not) you could even do the camber and toe adjustment over lunch.
Note down what works for the conditions, then if it rains you're back to square one.
A great mix of slow and fast corners, you get heat into the tires in 1 or 2 laps, do a few laps, then adjust the pressures, see how that feels. Then adjust the stiffness/ rake see how that feels. If you're capable with the spanners and string (I'm not) you could even do the camber and toe adjustment over lunch.
Note down what works for the conditions, then if it rains you're back to square one.
ferr said:
thanx for talking me trough this forzagilles . you mention adjustable platforms , that is for ride height adjustment ? and another part wich i cant find the english word for , the iron frame where the wheelhub and suspension is attached to , when you dont chane them out to widetrack , will the stock ones do ? they look so fragile to me but im a biker still and a truckbuilder by trade so that might be why )) . yes they banned bikes and stated it was too dangerous . but i know a lot of people in the area and a few who work for the ring , and aparently they were thinking of banning bikes for years now . the true reason is that theres many bike accidents over oilspills and that means closures and no money for them , aswell as there are quite a few fatalities at the ring , way more then we ever hear off , often not in the news even . and that draws attention and sooner or later politicians will have a say and potentialy end the ring as we know it . tnx for your input i apreciate it a lot
edit , heres a vid of a summernight lap back when we thought the fun would never end )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTGxkVZGaR0
Yes, that's right - the adjustable platforms are for ride height/corner weight adjustment. Wide track is wider wishbones at the front - they're supposed to reduce understeer, but i'm not really sure how much difference they actually make. They give the car a wider stance, so they look better edit , heres a vid of a summernight lap back when we thought the fun would never end )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTGxkVZGaR0
Edited by ferr on Tuesday 9th June 16:29
With wide track, the front and rear track is the same. Certainly not essential. They're pretty strong, don't worry about that. The car only weighs 530kg I can understand the reasoning behind banning the bikes, but it's still a shame.
I've just watched your video - you guys are nuts!!!!!
Edited by ForzaGilles on Wednesday 10th June 12:14
I saw you're looking for a Caterham and I have my numbered Superlight for sale in Italy. It has all the necessary track upgrades, and it's currently set up with a roll cage and aero screen. I also have the doors, windscreen, and half-hood, so it's perfect for both track and road use. It is already registered in Italy with a certificate that should be valid across Europe as a historic car. Feel free to contact me whenever you want at +3937O3O32622
Edited by antonio.cocchi on Thursday 11th June 11:59
Edited by antonio.cocchi on Thursday 11th June 12:01
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