The increasing war against the Motorsports Snapper
Discussion
Motorsport photography has long been my 'thing'. Even had some published, sold prints and managed to blag press passes in the past but mainly shot from the public enclosures for my own pleasure. My speciality was/is hunting out unique vantage points through which to stick a lens.
Visited the British GP this year and took my gear. I found out after that Silverstone has a limit on lenses of no more than 400mm and no tripods or monopods. This is isn't obviously stated anywhere but in ignorance of the rule, I had no trouble bringing in my 400mm, 600mm and a meaty monopod. My guess is that the people checking bags wouldn't know a telephoto from a telescope. Nor would they know what a teleconverter is!
Either way, was pleased to find that on the Friday, the perimeter of The Loop offered a terrific vantage point - even giving some access to the 'pro-holes' avoiding the need to shoot through fencing. But within a minute of me getting the camera out, there was someone in a blue bib saying I can't shoot from there. Exactly the same at all the other good vantage points around the circuit. By the end of the day, black netting had gone up restricting the view at all the good viewing points.
Got chatting to a pro-snapper from Canada at Silverstone who was stood next to me by the Loop - on the public side of the fence. He said that even track side access is limited these days - all the pros are kept in tightly marked areas so everyone ends up getting the same shots. If you want to get something different it's sometime better to shoot from public enclosures!
This is the same at LeMans, Brands Hatch, and most other circuits I've been to... photographers seem no longer welcome.
Still, did manage to bag a couple of decent shots:
Visited the British GP this year and took my gear. I found out after that Silverstone has a limit on lenses of no more than 400mm and no tripods or monopods. This is isn't obviously stated anywhere but in ignorance of the rule, I had no trouble bringing in my 400mm, 600mm and a meaty monopod. My guess is that the people checking bags wouldn't know a telephoto from a telescope. Nor would they know what a teleconverter is!
Either way, was pleased to find that on the Friday, the perimeter of The Loop offered a terrific vantage point - even giving some access to the 'pro-holes' avoiding the need to shoot through fencing. But within a minute of me getting the camera out, there was someone in a blue bib saying I can't shoot from there. Exactly the same at all the other good vantage points around the circuit. By the end of the day, black netting had gone up restricting the view at all the good viewing points.
Got chatting to a pro-snapper from Canada at Silverstone who was stood next to me by the Loop - on the public side of the fence. He said that even track side access is limited these days - all the pros are kept in tightly marked areas so everyone ends up getting the same shots. If you want to get something different it's sometime better to shoot from public enclosures!
This is the same at LeMans, Brands Hatch, and most other circuits I've been to... photographers seem no longer welcome.
Still, did manage to bag a couple of decent shots:
Rallying is where it's at! (national and lower levels at least, I'm sure WRC controls access more tightly). I haven't shot circuit racing in years.
_DSC3740 by Ben, on Flickr
_DSC8743 by Ben, on Flickr
To be fair, I've still had the odd occasion with blue 'media' vest wearers thinking they're special and blatantly standing in front of other photographers, or trying to tell someone that they aren't allowed in a certain spot and then taking it themself if the person moves...
_DSC3740 by Ben, on Flickr_DSC8743 by Ben, on FlickrTo be fair, I've still had the odd occasion with blue 'media' vest wearers thinking they're special and blatantly standing in front of other photographers, or trying to tell someone that they aren't allowed in a certain spot and then taking it themself if the person moves...
StevieBee said:
Motorsport photography has long been my 'thing'. Even had some published, sold prints and managed to blag press passes in the past but mainly shot from the public enclosures for my own pleasure. My speciality was/is hunting out unique vantage points through which to stick a lens.
Visited the British GP this year and took my gear. I found out after that Silverstone has a limit on lenses of no more than 400mm and no tripods or monopods. This is isn't obviously stated anywhere but in ignorance of the rule, I had no trouble bringing in my 400mm, 600mm and a meaty monopod. My guess is that the people checking bags wouldn't know a telephoto from a telescope. Nor would they know what a teleconverter is!
Either way, was pleased to find that on the Friday, the perimeter of The Loop offered a terrific vantage point - even giving some access to the 'pro-holes' avoiding the need to shoot through fencing. But within a minute of me getting the camera out, there was someone in a blue bib saying I can't shoot from there. Exactly the same at all the other good vantage points around the circuit. By the end of the day, black netting had gone up restricting the view at all the good viewing points.
Got chatting to a pro-snapper from Canada at Silverstone who was stood next to me by the Loop - on the public side of the fence. He said that even track side access is limited these days - all the pros are kept in tightly marked areas so everyone ends up getting the same shots. If you want to get something different it's sometime better to shoot from public enclosures!
This is the same at LeMans, Brands Hatch, and most other circuits I've been to... photographers seem no longer welcome.
Still, did manage to bag a couple of decent shots:
Er. Perhaps they don't want you there?Visited the British GP this year and took my gear. I found out after that Silverstone has a limit on lenses of no more than 400mm and no tripods or monopods. This is isn't obviously stated anywhere but in ignorance of the rule, I had no trouble bringing in my 400mm, 600mm and a meaty monopod. My guess is that the people checking bags wouldn't know a telephoto from a telescope. Nor would they know what a teleconverter is!
Either way, was pleased to find that on the Friday, the perimeter of The Loop offered a terrific vantage point - even giving some access to the 'pro-holes' avoiding the need to shoot through fencing. But within a minute of me getting the camera out, there was someone in a blue bib saying I can't shoot from there. Exactly the same at all the other good vantage points around the circuit. By the end of the day, black netting had gone up restricting the view at all the good viewing points.
Got chatting to a pro-snapper from Canada at Silverstone who was stood next to me by the Loop - on the public side of the fence. He said that even track side access is limited these days - all the pros are kept in tightly marked areas so everyone ends up getting the same shots. If you want to get something different it's sometime better to shoot from public enclosures!
This is the same at LeMans, Brands Hatch, and most other circuits I've been to... photographers seem no longer welcome.
Still, did manage to bag a couple of decent shots:
Le Mans is interesting. Every year, things are slightly different. I have a mental collection of little nooks and crannies in my head of good shooting locations but so often they're closed off. Sometimes grandstand security disappears at night, sometimes it doesn't etc. It feels like a game!
But yeah, as above, it does make rallying feel rather liberating!
But yeah, as above, it does make rallying feel rather liberating!
The Mad Monk said:
StevieBee said:
Motorsport photography has long been my 'thing'. Even had some published, sold prints and managed to blag press passes in the past but mainly shot from the public enclosures for my own pleasure. My speciality was/is hunting out unique vantage points through which to stick a lens.
Visited the British GP this year and took my gear. I found out after that Silverstone has a limit on lenses of no more than 400mm and no tripods or monopods. This is isn't obviously stated anywhere but in ignorance of the rule, I had no trouble bringing in my 400mm, 600mm and a meaty monopod. My guess is that the people checking bags wouldn't know a telephoto from a telescope. Nor would they know what a teleconverter is!
Either way, was pleased to find that on the Friday, the perimeter of The Loop offered a terrific vantage point - even giving some access to the 'pro-holes' avoiding the need to shoot through fencing. But within a minute of me getting the camera out, there was someone in a blue bib saying I can't shoot from there. Exactly the same at all the other good vantage points around the circuit. By the end of the day, black netting had gone up restricting the view at all the good viewing points.
Got chatting to a pro-snapper from Canada at Silverstone who was stood next to me by the Loop - on the public side of the fence. He said that even track side access is limited these days - all the pros are kept in tightly marked areas so everyone ends up getting the same shots. If you want to get something different it's sometime better to shoot from public enclosures!
This is the same at LeMans, Brands Hatch, and most other circuits I've been to... photographers seem no longer welcome.
Still, did manage to bag a couple of decent shots:
Er. Perhaps they don't want you there?Visited the British GP this year and took my gear. I found out after that Silverstone has a limit on lenses of no more than 400mm and no tripods or monopods. This is isn't obviously stated anywhere but in ignorance of the rule, I had no trouble bringing in my 400mm, 600mm and a meaty monopod. My guess is that the people checking bags wouldn't know a telephoto from a telescope. Nor would they know what a teleconverter is!
Either way, was pleased to find that on the Friday, the perimeter of The Loop offered a terrific vantage point - even giving some access to the 'pro-holes' avoiding the need to shoot through fencing. But within a minute of me getting the camera out, there was someone in a blue bib saying I can't shoot from there. Exactly the same at all the other good vantage points around the circuit. By the end of the day, black netting had gone up restricting the view at all the good viewing points.
Got chatting to a pro-snapper from Canada at Silverstone who was stood next to me by the Loop - on the public side of the fence. He said that even track side access is limited these days - all the pros are kept in tightly marked areas so everyone ends up getting the same shots. If you want to get something different it's sometime better to shoot from public enclosures!
This is the same at LeMans, Brands Hatch, and most other circuits I've been to... photographers seem no longer welcome.
Still, did manage to bag a couple of decent shots:
I can sort of understand the restrictions around The Loop because if a car goes off there you're going to carpet bombed with gravel. The issue is more other benign areas that are deliberately obscured to prevent photography.
My guess - and it's only that - is that they don't want decent armatures capturing better shots than the pros or shots over which the powers that be have no control over.
You're going to the wrong circuits and in all honesty, the wrong events. Oulton Park as mentioned above is great for photography, Cadwell Park as well. The problem with the big circuits, Silverstone, Donington and Brands to an extent is the safety requirements for the World Championship events such as F1, Moto GP, World Superbikes. Silverstone is crap for spectating, yet alone photography.
I think it's to do with the way various rights are carved up between organisations. A cameraman friend of mine was sent to cover an F1 race. He was told where he could point his camera - and also where he couldn't because that view had been paid for by someone else.
StevieBee said:
decent armatures
Your mistake was going for F1, the point of the lens restrictions is to prevent someone trying to shoot with a 400mm prime from a packed grandstand. In fact if I wasn't in a grandstand but just trying to get a decent view from general admission and had to deal with some idiot with a massive lens and monopod, then yeah I wouldn't be best pleased.
The restriction around the loop are mostly to avoid crowds of people blocking the service road and getting run over by one of Silverstone's infamous double deckers that are doing their best to ruin you shoot by suddenly wafting into the background of your shot after you've worked hard to avoid the portaloo.
It's nothing to do with restricting the amateurs to benefit the pros or even the rights holders, they just don't care about photography hence why the pro photographers also have to deal with restrictions and ever expanding red zones.
Having said that try going there for a Britcar meeting or similar and you can shoot from wherever you like with whatever you like and no one will bother you.
The restriction around the loop are mostly to avoid crowds of people blocking the service road and getting run over by one of Silverstone's infamous double deckers that are doing their best to ruin you shoot by suddenly wafting into the background of your shot after you've worked hard to avoid the portaloo.
It's nothing to do with restricting the amateurs to benefit the pros or even the rights holders, they just don't care about photography hence why the pro photographers also have to deal with restrictions and ever expanding red zones.
Having said that try going there for a Britcar meeting or similar and you can shoot from wherever you like with whatever you like and no one will bother you.
I can see it from both sides. Things have gotten worse over the years, FoS is a goof example that I have visited over many years.
There is a lot of entitlement from photographers though, coming in with big lenses etc and hogging the best viewing positions. Fair enough a quieter events, but less so at big events, such as the F1 (and FoS).
For trackside there is also the safety implications, there was a trackside photographer who got seriously injured in Canada the other week. Experienced photographers may know the score on where to shoot from safely, but you will always get people pushing their luck, and it only takes a few pushing too far to spoil things for everyone.
There is a lot of entitlement from photographers though, coming in with big lenses etc and hogging the best viewing positions. Fair enough a quieter events, but less so at big events, such as the F1 (and FoS).
For trackside there is also the safety implications, there was a trackside photographer who got seriously injured in Canada the other week. Experienced photographers may know the score on where to shoot from safely, but you will always get people pushing their luck, and it only takes a few pushing too far to spoil things for everyone.
I don't think there's a "war" against Motorsport photographers, they are public sporting events, do keen photographers have the same grievances about other sports? I've never seen people complaining about not being able to shoot at football matches or rugby or whatever.
I'm a photographer, it's my job and I'm privileged to get access to the events I'm working at, but it is work. If I go to an event I'm not working at then I'll enjoy the event for what it is.
From personal experience, yes circuits can be more restrictive than they were in the past, but there is a safety issue as well. It can be frustrating at times, but as I said it's work, and I'd like to do the job and go home in the same condition I started in.
I'm a photographer, it's my job and I'm privileged to get access to the events I'm working at, but it is work. If I go to an event I'm not working at then I'll enjoy the event for what it is.
From personal experience, yes circuits can be more restrictive than they were in the past, but there is a safety issue as well. It can be frustrating at times, but as I said it's work, and I'd like to do the job and go home in the same condition I started in.
I wasn't taking taking photographs but I had decided to view from this location at Silverstone last weekend.
After a while (she knew I was there) I took out my camera and pointed it at her .... she then left.
In a parallel situation I found myself leaving a restaurant with a few paparazzi waiting outside;
the guy second left, didn't appreciate being photographed
After a while (she knew I was there) I took out my camera and pointed it at her .... she then left.
In a parallel situation I found myself leaving a restaurant with a few paparazzi waiting outside;
the guy second left, didn't appreciate being photographed
At the busier events, I tend to shoot during free practice/quali and then leave the camera at home for the actual race. At smaller events/circuits you can normally find quiet areas to do your thing without problems.
Le Mans is different as you can normally shoot from the circuit at less busy times of the race without difficulty - I tend to shoot most of my Le Mans images at sunset/night/sunrise when people are getting beer/still in bed
Le Mans is different as you can normally shoot from the circuit at less busy times of the race without difficulty - I tend to shoot most of my Le Mans images at sunset/night/sunrise when people are getting beer/still in bed
Speaking as someone who occasionally marshals at Silverstone, I wonder how many of the restrictions on the photographers, amateur and pro, is down to the amount of times we have to tell them to get of the firing line of the cars!
I did British GT a few years ago and the was a microphone on the fencing near the BRDC stand by the paddock collection area exit. The TV guys went and tweaked its position, messed around with it and generally got on everyone's nerves about 10 times during a 6 hour race.
Every time they were in the firing line of cars in the event of an accident coming into Brookland's, which is not an unheard of event...
We honestly spend more time marshaling the off circuit than the on circuit.
ETA: Non of the above applies to the kit restriction's, that is just plainly nuts and the first I have heard of it.
I did British GT a few years ago and the was a microphone on the fencing near the BRDC stand by the paddock collection area exit. The TV guys went and tweaked its position, messed around with it and generally got on everyone's nerves about 10 times during a 6 hour race.
Every time they were in the firing line of cars in the event of an accident coming into Brookland's, which is not an unheard of event...
We honestly spend more time marshaling the off circuit than the on circuit.
ETA: Non of the above applies to the kit restriction's, that is just plainly nuts and the first I have heard of it.
I would imagine you would hardly ever have to tell a photographer to get out of the firing line, the red zones are well publicised in the media room and we might pull our face over some of the locations that are placed OOB but everyone respects it. We all have a number on our tabards and we know the marshalls have a direct line to race control so any transgression can be quickly reported and any photographer who has to visit race control knows the outcome will not be in their favour and will absolutely impact their future in the sport.
Sometimes you will get an over confident young buck trying their luck, the one who wondered through an open gate at Laguna Seca a few years ago and was on live tv shooting from the edge of the track springs to mind, but you can be sure that individual has never shot a race from trackside since.
Sometimes you will get an over confident young buck trying their luck, the one who wondered through an open gate at Laguna Seca a few years ago and was on live tv shooting from the edge of the track springs to mind, but you can be sure that individual has never shot a race from trackside since.
Megaflow said:
I did British GT a few years ago and the was a microphone on the fencing near the BRDC stand by the paddock collection area exit. The TV guys went and tweaked its position, messed around with it and generally got on everyone's nerves about 10 times during a 6 hour race.
That's quite a wide location with a massive catch fence above the armco, you could probably duck under it and squeeze between the fence and the armco but I'd have thought it would have been easier to stay on the safe side so I doubt, how ever often he went there, it actually got on anyone's nerves. I've always found marshals to be pretty good about that kind of thing, we're all there to do a job in the end, no matter how silly and pointless it might seem to others.Megaflow said:
Speaking as someone who occasionally marshals at Silverstone, I wonder how many of the restrictions on the photographers, amateur and pro, is down to the amount of times we have to tell them to get of the firing line of the cars!
So this I understand. I've seen plenty of cars head straight on at the top of Druids at Brands aiming directly where photographers were stood and am amazed there's been no serious incident involving them there. Makes sense for this to now be a red zone.But then you have this example, also at Brands....
This is the exit at Surtees - 2019 I think. There's an access gate there. The left hand post sits slightly away from the fence post creating a gap just about big enough to aim a 600m lens through when positioned in the designated spectator area - though requiring one shoots particularly close to the ground. Now, keeping in mind that spectators are permitted to stand where I was stood, it is reasonable to assume that any risk to the public was low. So, quite a neat place to grab some shots. Yet, last time I was there, they'd placed black fabric over the gap. I could see no viable reason for this other than to restrict a line of sight to photographers.
Elderly said:
I wasn't taking taking photographs but I had decided to view from this location at Silverstone last weekend.
After a while (she knew I was there) I took out my camera and pointed it at her .... she then left.
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I had this at Snetterton yesterday, it was a test day that I happened to take my camera too so no pressure or anything and in the whole circuit there must have been 50 people total. So this photographer decided to flex and choose this point to take his 3 photos from.After a while (she knew I was there) I took out my camera and pointed it at her .... she then left.
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Edited by n3il123 on Saturday 8th August 09:33
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