Motorsports shutter speeds
Discussion
Following an interesting link posted by Murph to a Canon forum, some people are shooting motosports at (what I consider) slow shutter speeds 1/160 or 1/250.
I always shoot as fast as I can (ooerr!), plus following Ed H's advice of 2 x focal length, so I'm shooting at 1/800 +
This obivously helps to ensure there the camera shake is minimised, but means there is no motion blur, which can make the image a bit dull.
I use the standard technique of panning with the car with the AF, following through and capturing.
Could be that I need to treat myself to a nice 100-400 L with IS!!, that way I can shoot at lower speeds and still reduce camera shake.
Over to you Ed, Simpo and co....
Steve
I always shoot as fast as I can (ooerr!), plus following Ed H's advice of 2 x focal length, so I'm shooting at 1/800 +
This obivously helps to ensure there the camera shake is minimised, but means there is no motion blur, which can make the image a bit dull.
I use the standard technique of panning with the car with the AF, following through and capturing.
Could be that I need to treat myself to a nice 100-400 L with IS!!, that way I can shoot at lower speeds and still reduce camera shake.
Over to you Ed, Simpo and co....
Steve
Canon IS (image satb.) is a godsend.
I've had shots at 1/8 come out OK...doesn't need much faster to all but guarantee sharp images.
The auto settings on SLRs usually give OK results with motorsports, but frankly the images always look too static. You may as well take photos when the cars are still...
If you're into Canon gear, the site's (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=23) a great read and some good tips come up on there frequently. If you go to the Forum index, other Canon cameras etc are also covered in different forums.
The 100-400L IS is a top lens. Buy it from Andorra for 2/3s the price of the UK...
I've had shots at 1/8 come out OK...doesn't need much faster to all but guarantee sharp images.
The auto settings on SLRs usually give OK results with motorsports, but frankly the images always look too static. You may as well take photos when the cars are still...
If you're into Canon gear, the site's (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=23) a great read and some good tips come up on there frequently. If you go to the Forum index, other Canon cameras etc are also covered in different forums.
The 100-400L IS is a top lens. Buy it from Andorra for 2/3s the price of the UK...
This was shot at 1/125 panning on a 28-75 lense.
Still managed to get reasonable motion blur on other subjects shot at 1/200, but they were moving quickly. Personally I like to shoot all moving cars with either a relatively long exposure to get plenty of movement and feel into the shot or tightly cropped with a very fast shutter (1/2000) and shallow DOF to freeze the car mid corner.
Still managed to get reasonable motion blur on other subjects shot at 1/200, but they were moving quickly. Personally I like to shoot all moving cars with either a relatively long exposure to get plenty of movement and feel into the shot or tightly cropped with a very fast shutter (1/2000) and shallow DOF to freeze the car mid corner.
I fear I've been misquoted! 
To get sharp static handheld shots, you ideally want the shutter speed to be quicker than 1/focal length, e.g., 1/500s for a 400mm lens (35mm equivalent for digital users!), or 1/60 for a 50mm lens.
Obviously for panning shots, you don't want it to be totally sharp, so you can go for slower speeds with the image being more and more blurred the slower you go.
I've only really tried panning with speeds of 1/125 - 1/250 with a 300mm+ lens, and haven't really tried any slower, however some nice shots I've seen on here (e.g. trackdemon's goodwood pics) have been considerably slower than this I think.
I'm intending to try shots with really slow speeds (1/6 - 1/60) next time to see how these come out, as most of my motor racing shots look too sharp and static too.
To get sharp static handheld shots, you ideally want the shutter speed to be quicker than 1/focal length, e.g., 1/500s for a 400mm lens (35mm equivalent for digital users!), or 1/60 for a 50mm lens.
Obviously for panning shots, you don't want it to be totally sharp, so you can go for slower speeds with the image being more and more blurred the slower you go.
I've only really tried panning with speeds of 1/125 - 1/250 with a 300mm+ lens, and haven't really tried any slower, however some nice shots I've seen on here (e.g. trackdemon's goodwood pics) have been considerably slower than this I think.
I'm intending to try shots with really slow speeds (1/6 - 1/60) next time to see how these come out, as most of my motor racing shots look too sharp and static too.
(leaps onto stage)
It's a judgement thing. Thinking about it, the factors are (1) speed of car, (2) distance you are from it and (3)length of lens.
The first two determine the speed of the pan you need. The third, focal length, has to be juggled in as well, for camera-shake reasons.
At Helmingham last Sunday the cars weren't going very fast but I was quite close, so the pan speed was significant. I found that 1/125 - 1/160 at 70mm gave me the best motion blur before camera-shake took over. (Luckily I had a nice LCD monitor to peer into after each shot to judge results, damn useful)
Think golf swing, take a deep breath and aim towards the front of the car or the driver, as where you aim will be sharpest.
It's a judgement thing. Thinking about it, the factors are (1) speed of car, (2) distance you are from it and (3)length of lens.
The first two determine the speed of the pan you need. The third, focal length, has to be juggled in as well, for camera-shake reasons.
At Helmingham last Sunday the cars weren't going very fast but I was quite close, so the pan speed was significant. I found that 1/125 - 1/160 at 70mm gave me the best motion blur before camera-shake took over. (Luckily I had a nice LCD monitor to peer into after each shot to judge results, damn useful)
Think golf swing, take a deep breath and aim towards the front of the car or the driver, as where you aim will be sharpest.
After two years of trying to do good panning shots, I've got a resonable feel for different speeds.
I consider 1/250 to be the fastest I'd use, gives a bit of blur, but is pretty easy to keep subject sharp :-
1/160 is a bit trickier, but a big step up in the sense of motion and background blur :-
I can't find any slower ones off hand, but 1/125 looks better still, however it's almost impossible to get the whole of a car sharp. 1/90 and 1/60 can be stunning if you pan well, but for me it's luck at that speed!
As Simpo said though, distance, speed of subject and focal length play a part too. This was 1/160, but 400mm not 200ish as above, and a car probably doing 80-100mph more, making it look more blurred
As with most photographic techniques, there are no hard and fast rules, just guidelines really.
I consider 1/250 to be the fastest I'd use, gives a bit of blur, but is pretty easy to keep subject sharp :-
1/160 is a bit trickier, but a big step up in the sense of motion and background blur :-
I can't find any slower ones off hand, but 1/125 looks better still, however it's almost impossible to get the whole of a car sharp. 1/90 and 1/60 can be stunning if you pan well, but for me it's luck at that speed!
As Simpo said though, distance, speed of subject and focal length play a part too. This was 1/160, but 400mm not 200ish as above, and a car probably doing 80-100mph more, making it look more blurred
As with most photographic techniques, there are no hard and fast rules, just guidelines really.
Hi Steve,
I would agree with the slower shutter speed, practice panning approach to motorsport pictures. A sharp image with blurred background and wheels conveys 'speed' to me.
The IS on the Canon 100-400L is a great help too!
The only exception for me is head-on shots when i crank up the shutter speed a bit.
Roll on Saturday... more practice at Brands Hatch
)
George
I would agree with the slower shutter speed, practice panning approach to motorsport pictures. A sharp image with blurred background and wheels conveys 'speed' to me.
The IS on the Canon 100-400L is a great help too!
The only exception for me is head-on shots when i crank up the shutter speed a bit.
Roll on Saturday... more practice at Brands Hatch
) George
Just trying to get the hang of this panning business but not really doing so well. Armed with my trusty Canon S50 at the weekend I managed to produce a load of blurred rubbish 
This is the only one I dare risk showing...
Any of the previous pictures taken using a "cheaper" camera? Am I expecting too much from my device or is the truth that I'm just not doing it right? I suspect the latter
This is the only one I dare risk showing... Any of the previous pictures taken using a "cheaper" camera? Am I expecting too much from my device or is the truth that I'm just not doing it right? I suspect the latter
zax said:
Just trying to get the hang of this panning business but not really doing so well. Armed with my trusty Canon S50 at the weekend I managed to produce a load of blurred rubbish
I'd say that's pretty close, just a bit slow on the shutter speed. If you're using digital at least you can squint into the monitor straight afterwards, see what you think of the shot and adjust if necessary. With film it's more guesswork/judgement (one being an advanced version of the other!).
zax said:
Any of the previous pictures taken using a "cheaper" camera? Am I expecting too much from my device or is the truth that I'm just not doing it right? I suspect the latter
There's some here that I took with a Canon A70 which is about half the cost of the S50:
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~kiteless/gt/
They are the few decent pics out of 300+ that day, I was experimenting with settings for panning, the odd light didn't help much either. I assume the display and controls are similar, I tended to stick it in auto mode, pre-focus, it then gives the values at the bottom of the screen. Switch over to shutter priority mode, come down a couple of speeds and try that. If you have a rapid-shooting mode , it's worth trying so you get several shots across the pan (prefocus somewhere in the middle of the movemnt), I found it easier than trying to second-guess the shutter lag of the camera.
S50 is meant to be very capable - shares most of the features of the G3/G5 cameras but shrunk into a compact and it does offer proper manual controls.
It's practice really, if you can get down to a circuit which has decent photo opportunities (most smaller ones tend to have low fences), just take loads of pictures on all sorts of different settings and see what works.
georgec said:
I would agree with the slower shutter speed, practice panning approach to motorsport pictures. A sharp image with blurred background and wheels conveys 'speed' to me.
George
IMHO fast shutter speed's don't convey speed like slow shutter speeds do, I recon this was probably slower than 1/30th . . . but don't really know . . . but the car looks like it's doind what it was doing . . . passing me very quickly !
http://woolymonkey.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-13
however . . .
Sometimes fast is cool, check out that inside front tyre . . .
http://woolymonkey.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-976
Fd
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