What should I get as my next SLR?
Discussion
I think the time has come to replace my ageing Canon 400D. Budget isn't set in stone, but I'm thinking circa £500.
My main priority is to get something intuitive. I'd like to think I'm capable of more than simply point and shoot, but I sometimes find it quite difficult to get the results I want with my 400D. Ages back I borrowed a Nikon that seemed to handle the semi-auto side a lot better.
In terms of brand, I'm not too fussed. I've not invested enough in Canon EOS to rule out a swap, but I do have the 18-55 kit lens and a half decent image-stabilised zoom lens that I could presumably re-use if I bought another Canon body-only?
What do people think about going second hand?
I'm off now for a browse, but is there anywhere in particularly you'd recommend looking?
Most importantly, what camera would you recommend?
My main priority is to get something intuitive. I'd like to think I'm capable of more than simply point and shoot, but I sometimes find it quite difficult to get the results I want with my 400D. Ages back I borrowed a Nikon that seemed to handle the semi-auto side a lot better.
In terms of brand, I'm not too fussed. I've not invested enough in Canon EOS to rule out a swap, but I do have the 18-55 kit lens and a half decent image-stabilised zoom lens that I could presumably re-use if I bought another Canon body-only?
What do people think about going second hand?
I'm off now for a browse, but is there anywhere in particularly you'd recommend looking?
Most importantly, what camera would you recommend?
Having had a quick look the options seem to be:
Canon 750/760D - not really sure what the differences are between these two. The control layout seems to be about it?
- Highest resolution, highest dynamic range, WiFi,
Canon 700D - seems to be an older version of the above really? As far as I can see, not much to justify it other than price? On-camera HDR might be handy, I suppose.
Canon 70D - Better AF than the 700D, better weather protection, better dynamic range than 700D, longer battery life, wider exposure bracketing, best low light performance
Outside options:
Canon 7D mk2 - Don't really think I can afford it, unless someone has spotted a really good Boxing Day sales offer?
A mate is also selling his Canon 5D (not sure which generation). Would that be overkill for a relatively inexperienced amateur? Would my 400D lenses still fit?
Another second hand DSLR.
Mirrorless? The price difference to a mid-range SLR doesn't seem to be as advantageous as you might expect and I'd lose the benefit of my existing SLR lenses, but a lot of people seem to be heading in this direction.
Canon 750/760D - not really sure what the differences are between these two. The control layout seems to be about it?
- Highest resolution, highest dynamic range, WiFi,
Canon 700D - seems to be an older version of the above really? As far as I can see, not much to justify it other than price? On-camera HDR might be handy, I suppose.
Canon 70D - Better AF than the 700D, better weather protection, better dynamic range than 700D, longer battery life, wider exposure bracketing, best low light performance
Outside options:
Canon 7D mk2 - Don't really think I can afford it, unless someone has spotted a really good Boxing Day sales offer?
A mate is also selling his Canon 5D (not sure which generation). Would that be overkill for a relatively inexperienced amateur? Would my 400D lenses still fit?
Another second hand DSLR.
Mirrorless? The price difference to a mid-range SLR doesn't seem to be as advantageous as you might expect and I'd lose the benefit of my existing SLR lenses, but a lot of people seem to be heading in this direction.
Edited by Chris71 on Saturday 26th December 12:08
If your lenses are 'EF-S' they won't fit a 5D or any other Canon full frame.
The camera doesn't matter, it's you. So try and learn how to set the camera and lens up to take photos that you're happy with. Do you edit images much or just use the JPEGs as they come off the camera? I'd advise taking photos in RAW, and then spending a couple of minutes making adjustments in Photoshop. Far better results, no need for new gear.
However, try a used 50D in a shop if you can. I don't like the smaller bodied cameras, my hands are too big and everything is too menu-driven. A 50D 'should' give better results, but only if you learn how to use it properly.
The camera doesn't matter, it's you. So try and learn how to set the camera and lens up to take photos that you're happy with. Do you edit images much or just use the JPEGs as they come off the camera? I'd advise taking photos in RAW, and then spending a couple of minutes making adjustments in Photoshop. Far better results, no need for new gear.
However, try a used 50D in a shop if you can. I don't like the smaller bodied cameras, my hands are too big and everything is too menu-driven. A 50D 'should' give better results, but only if you learn how to use it properly.
Tony1963 said:
If your lenses are 'EF-S' they won't fit a 5D or any other Canon full frame.
The camera doesn't matter, it's you. So try and learn how to set the camera and lens up to take photos that you're happy with. Do you edit images much or just use the JPEGs as they come off the camera? I'd advise taking photos in RAW, and then spending a couple of minutes making adjustments in Photoshop. Far better results, no need for new gear.
However, try a used 50D in a shop if you can. I don't like the smaller bodied cameras, my hands are too big and everything is too menu-driven. A 50D 'should' give better results, but only if you learn how to use it properly.
I'm keen to improve my photography, but I'm not convinced the 400D would deliver the quality I'm looking for ... even if I could. The camera doesn't matter, it's you. So try and learn how to set the camera and lens up to take photos that you're happy with. Do you edit images much or just use the JPEGs as they come off the camera? I'd advise taking photos in RAW, and then spending a couple of minutes making adjustments in Photoshop. Far better results, no need for new gear.
However, try a used 50D in a shop if you can. I don't like the smaller bodied cameras, my hands are too big and everything is too menu-driven. A 50D 'should' give better results, but only if you learn how to use it properly.
It's nearly a decade old now and I've got shots where the focus, exposure, shutter speed etc. all appear to be good and yet it's just not as crisp as I'd hope. Likewise, the dynamic range of the 400D has always struck me as pretty limited (admittedly on very ordinary lenses). I realise the optics and sensor specifications are a world apart, but surely there must be some benefit to upgrading when my phone has more than twice the resolution of my SLR?
In answer to your question, though, I shoot in RAW if it's anything important. Weirdly, I actually find the 400D produces better images straight off the camera in RAW than it does in JPG - I can't see any reason they should be different.
Forget resolution, I've seen cracking photos at 6mp from an ol 10D. The sensor size, camera firmware and lens are the big factors.
Summer '14 I went from my 40D to 5D3, and the leap in image quality was massive. Same lenses, same laptop screen (MacBook Pro Retina, 15"). And yes, the dynamic range and autofocus are in a different league.
What sort of photography are you mainly doing? In your position I'd seriously consider a used 7D. I can't recommend anything less, as you might only see small improvements. I strongly recommend you hold back and keep saving. A used 7D2 would be a belter for all amateur photography.
Summer '14 I went from my 40D to 5D3, and the leap in image quality was massive. Same lenses, same laptop screen (MacBook Pro Retina, 15"). And yes, the dynamic range and autofocus are in a different league.
What sort of photography are you mainly doing? In your position I'd seriously consider a used 7D. I can't recommend anything less, as you might only see small improvements. I strongly recommend you hold back and keep saving. A used 7D2 would be a belter for all amateur photography.
Tony1963 said:
Forget resolution, I've seen cracking photos at 6mp from an ol 10D. The sensor size, camera firmware and lens are the big factors.
Summer '14 I went from my 40D to 5D3, and the leap in image quality was massive. Same lenses, same laptop screen (MacBook Pro Retina, 15"). And yes, the dynamic range and autofocus are in a different league.
What sort of photography are you mainly doing? In your position I'd seriously consider a used 7D. I can't recommend anything less, as you might only see small improvements. I strongly recommend you hold back and keep saving. A used 7D2 would be a belter for all amateur photography.
Cars, mostly. Sometimes indoors with poor light, sometimes static or on the move outside. Summer '14 I went from my 40D to 5D3, and the leap in image quality was massive. Same lenses, same laptop screen (MacBook Pro Retina, 15"). And yes, the dynamic range and autofocus are in a different league.
What sort of photography are you mainly doing? In your position I'd seriously consider a used 7D. I can't recommend anything less, as you might only see small improvements. I strongly recommend you hold back and keep saving. A used 7D2 would be a belter for all amateur photography.
I don't know a huge amount about the pace of development, admittedly, but has there really been that little progress that it's not worth upgrading from a camera that was considered entry-level 10 years ago?
I did have a quick look for a 7D mark 2 and couldn't find any used examples yet. This place has them (body only) for £809, though: http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/canon-eos-7d-mk-ii-bo... More than I wanted to spend, but a lot less than some places are charging.
ETA The above is presumably a grey import, but reviews are good for HDEW: https://purpleport.com/group/general-chat/72236/ha...
Edited by Chris71 on Saturday 26th December 16:29
I've almost used HDEW a couple of times, but delivery wasn't convenient for me, which was a shame.
Seriously, keep your 400D for a few more months, and just save for a new 7D Mk2. Or, hunt down a good used 7D Mk1. Anything else will just be a small stepping stone and you'll be wondering "what if" very quickly. The 7D2 at just over £800 is an absolute steal with incredibly good a/f and 10 fps. Unless you're a pro portrait and landscape snapper, it's all you'll need for years. Any birthdays coming up? Anything you can flog on eBay for a few tenners or more?
Seriously, keep your 400D for a few more months, and just save for a new 7D Mk2. Or, hunt down a good used 7D Mk1. Anything else will just be a small stepping stone and you'll be wondering "what if" very quickly. The 7D2 at just over £800 is an absolute steal with incredibly good a/f and 10 fps. Unless you're a pro portrait and landscape snapper, it's all you'll need for years. Any birthdays coming up? Anything you can flog on eBay for a few tenners or more?
Tony1963 said:
I've almost used HDEW a couple of times, but delivery wasn't convenient for me, which was a shame.
Seriously, keep your 400D for a few more months, and just save for a new 7D Mk2. Or, hunt down a good used 7D Mk1. Anything else will just be a small stepping stone and you'll be wondering "what if" very quickly. The 7D2 at just over £800 is an absolute steal with incredibly good a/f and 10 fps. Unless you're a pro portrait and landscape snapper, it's all you'll need for years. Any birthdays coming up? Anything you can flog on eBay for a few tenners or more?
Well, the budget would stretch. Just. And it's a taxable expense for me...Seriously, keep your 400D for a few more months, and just save for a new 7D Mk2. Or, hunt down a good used 7D Mk1. Anything else will just be a small stepping stone and you'll be wondering "what if" very quickly. The 7D2 at just over £800 is an absolute steal with incredibly good a/f and 10 fps. Unless you're a pro portrait and landscape snapper, it's all you'll need for years. Any birthdays coming up? Anything you can flog on eBay for a few tenners or more?
I made the jump recently from the 400D to the 70D and I really regret not doing it sooner.
Whilst there is obviously a lot more to control it's much more intuitive, the AF is a big improvement, images are noticeably sharper, low light/high ISO performance is much better and the articulated screen is more useful than I thought it would be. It is noticeably heavier but not uncomfortably so. I also find the wifi quite handy; coupled with LR Mobile I'll often take photo's for family/social media consumption and edit them over a coffee before sticking on Facebook. I really look forward to using it.
I don't use Liveview or video as much as I thought I would but I think that may be habit as much as anything - I'm so used to not having them that I sometimes forget they're there.
I'm still getting to grips with it though - so far I've just been using it normally rather than trying to wrap my head around some of the more advanced features. Really need to spend some time in the new year learning to get the most from it.
I wasn't personally ready for the jump to full frame and the 7D2 didn't look like enough extra for the extra cost (buying used, less 7D2's on the market so may not be so relevant if you're buying new.)
Whilst there is obviously a lot more to control it's much more intuitive, the AF is a big improvement, images are noticeably sharper, low light/high ISO performance is much better and the articulated screen is more useful than I thought it would be. It is noticeably heavier but not uncomfortably so. I also find the wifi quite handy; coupled with LR Mobile I'll often take photo's for family/social media consumption and edit them over a coffee before sticking on Facebook. I really look forward to using it.
I don't use Liveview or video as much as I thought I would but I think that may be habit as much as anything - I'm so used to not having them that I sometimes forget they're there.
I'm still getting to grips with it though - so far I've just been using it normally rather than trying to wrap my head around some of the more advanced features. Really need to spend some time in the new year learning to get the most from it.
I wasn't personally ready for the jump to full frame and the 7D2 didn't look like enough extra for the extra cost (buying used, less 7D2's on the market so may not be so relevant if you're buying new.)
Now I'm in a quandry! Hmmm.
ETA: Sod it. I've gone for the 7D2. Or at least I think I have - after much Googling it sounds like you can get a VAT receipt but you need to request it during payment. I can't see a way to do it online, but there's an option to order something online and then pay for it over the phone. Seems they closed a couple of hours ago and the sale expires tonight I thought I'd put my order in via the website and then pay for it over the phone tomorrow once they've confirmed they can include a VAT receipt.
ETA: Sod it. I've gone for the 7D2. Or at least I think I have - after much Googling it sounds like you can get a VAT receipt but you need to request it during payment. I can't see a way to do it online, but there's an option to order something online and then pay for it over the phone. Seems they closed a couple of hours ago and the sale expires tonight I thought I'd put my order in via the website and then pay for it over the phone tomorrow once they've confirmed they can include a VAT receipt.
Edited by Chris71 on Monday 28th December 18:54
RobDickinson said:
I could get clear crisp images out of a 350d, sure they lack the resolution of a later camera but you can still take great photos with those older slr's.
I wont say dont get a new body as they have come on a long way but if the issue is with your technique gear wont help.
I'm not convinced.I wont say dont get a new body as they have come on a long way but if the issue is with your technique gear wont help.
There is plenty of room for improvement in my technique, but the Nikon SLR we used to have at work took better photos with the same idiot at the controls.
Chris71 said:
I'm not convinced.
There is plenty of room for improvement in my technique, but the Nikon SLR we used to have at work took better photos with the same idiot at the controls.
Well the 400d kit lens was trash which could be the problem, or what metering mode , or focusing you are doing etc. Not all Auto modes are the same and SLR's dont reward ignorance, or at least rewarded it poorly way back in the day.There is plenty of room for improvement in my technique, but the Nikon SLR we used to have at work took better photos with the same idiot at the controls.
Lucas CAV said:
Define "better".
It's a long time ago now, but from memory, substantially better dynamic range. The semi-auto modes seemed to result in more or less perfect exposure every time, while the 400D needs more manual intervention. I've often wondered if there was a fault with mine, actually, because it seems so hard to get it right. Chris71 said:
I'm not convinced.
There is plenty of room for improvement in my technique, but the Nikon SLR we used to have at work took better photos with the same idiot at the controls.
There is plenty of room for improvement in my technique, but the Nikon SLR we used to have at work took better photos with the same idiot at the controls.
It's all academic now, though, because I've treated myself to the 7D2. My reasoning is that I've kept the 400D - which at the time I saw as a rather extravagant expense - for the best part of a decade.
I'm sure I sound like some ignorant fool determined to take better photos simply by throwing money at them, but the fact is I do enjoy photography. Even if I'm not good enough to appreciate the benefit now I hope to be within the 10+ years I'll probably hang on to this camera.
Chris71 said:
It's a long time ago now, but from memory, substantially better dynamic range. The semi-auto modes seemed to result in more or less perfect exposure every time, while the 400D needs more manual intervention. I've often wondered if there was a fault with mine, actually, because it seems so hard to get it right.
It's all academic now, though, because I've treated myself to the 7D2. My reasoning is that I've kept the 400D - which at the time I saw as a rather extravagant expense - for the best part of a decade.
I'm sure I sound like some ignorant fool determined to take better photos simply by throwing money at them, but the fact is I do enjoy photography. Even if I'm not good enough to appreciate the benefit now I hope to be within the 10+ years I'll probably hang on to this camera.
Nothing wrong with better gear but it needs to be coupled to understanding. It's all academic now, though, because I've treated myself to the 7D2. My reasoning is that I've kept the 400D - which at the time I saw as a rather extravagant expense - for the best part of a decade.
I'm sure I sound like some ignorant fool determined to take better photos simply by throwing money at them, but the fact is I do enjoy photography. Even if I'm not good enough to appreciate the benefit now I hope to be within the 10+ years I'll probably hang on to this camera.
The metering systems of cameras (esp the low end) has improved significantly in the last 10 years as has the jpg processing and sensor qualities.
It could have been the canon was set on an inappropriate metering method, but likely the nikon was just better.
I found my 7D evaluative(default) to be a little crazy but center weighted average to be very good.
But you still need to understand what the metering is trying to do, and know when it will get it wrong and help it out. Or shoot manual and control it all yourself ( better but not always appropriate).
7D2 looks an amazing camera, good quality 20mp sensor, fast af etc.
Dont put that 18-55 kit lens on it though... its trash
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