Go Pro Stock price, is the product still sound ?
Discussion
So the Go pro stock price has taken a massive hit over Christmas and new year...
As far as I can see they are still the market leaders and due to announce new products this year, it looks massively oversold to me.
What is the general feeling on their products ? Are the other manufacturers catching up, does anyone think the new Hero 5 is going to be a great improvement ( currently expected to be smaller and lighter )
Go Pro also announced a Drone, Karma... any thoughts on this ?
As far as I can see they are still the market leaders and due to announce new products this year, it looks massively oversold to me.
What is the general feeling on their products ? Are the other manufacturers catching up, does anyone think the new Hero 5 is going to be a great improvement ( currently expected to be smaller and lighter )
Go Pro also announced a Drone, Karma... any thoughts on this ?
I bought a £40 SJ4000 (I think thats what its called) cam, very similar looking to the go pro, not a good quality materials and whilst the sound and picture quality might not be up to the latest go pro is perfectly acceptable to capturing my more 'interesting' lines whilst on track. These cheaper alternatives must be affecting the sales of go pro's.
I've also heard mixed reviews about how reliable the go pros are.
I've also heard mixed reviews about how reliable the go pros are.
Zoon said:
GetCarter said:
There's a Chinese copy that records 4k video and simultaneously 12mb stills every second for £40?
Where's that then? Gotta have it!
SJ5000X £90Where's that then? Gotta have it!
not £40 then. Shame. ETA
"There's not much extra quality to be gained by switching to 2K recording and, disappointingly, the 4K mode isn't actually 4K. It records at 2880x2160, and SJCAM says this is just upscaled 2K footage. Which begs the question, why is it sold as a 4K camera?"
You generally gets what you pays for.
Edited by GetCarter on Friday 4th March 14:48
GetCarter said:
not £40 then. Shame. ETA
"There's not much extra quality to be gained by switching to 2K recording and, disappointingly, the 4K mode isn't actually 4K. It records at 2880x2160, and SJCAM says this is just upscaled 2K footage. Which begs the question, why is it sold as a 4K camera?"
You generally gets what you pays for.
Edited by GetCarter on Friday 4th March 14:48
95% of the population will be happy with 2k footage for £90 rather than upwards of £400.
They do a 1080p camera which received better reviews than the equivalent go-pro which does cost £40.
My point is they don't have something which is unique enough to keep the share price artificially high unless they come up with something pretty special. Therefore my prediction is they won't do too well over the next 5 years.
Zoon said:
GetCarter said:
not £40 then. Shame. ETA
"There's not much extra quality to be gained by switching to 2K recording and, disappointingly, the 4K mode isn't actually 4K. It records at 2880x2160, and SJCAM says this is just upscaled 2K footage. Which begs the question, why is it sold as a 4K camera?"
You generally gets what you pays for.
Edited by GetCarter on Friday 4th March 14:48
95% of the population will be happy with 2k footage for £90 rather than upwards of £400.
They do a 1080p camera which received better reviews than the equivalent go-pro which does cost £40.
My point is they don't have something which is unique enough to keep the share price artificially high unless they come up with something pretty special. Therefore my prediction is they won't do too well over the next 5 years.
As for 4k footage. I watch it now, and in 5 years time everyone will (or better), and footage that isn't 4k (or better) will look crap.
I believe in creating media in the best res that's available at the time, as Joe Public will always catch up.
Here is a quarter of one frame from a 4k vid taken this morning. (8mb file). You'll see where I am coming from.
http://stevecarter.com/random/4416.tif
GitUp GitPro 2 (odd name I know) is a pretty good alternative to a GoPro. Fits in the bloody GoPro case as well and fits most of the mounts and adapters. Its about £100 and it packs a 16 MP SONY Exmor sensor so its not wading into battle with something duff! By all accounts its appears pretty capable!
Its not as capable as the top GoPro model, but it does make it look over priced.
Its not as capable as the top GoPro model, but it does make it look over priced.
GoPro are first and foremost a marketing brand, and secondly a product integrator, nothing more.
They don't much of the IP behind the products they offer, nor make many of the parts themselves - instead they just buy everything in - like any of the other camera makers can do.
So some of the much much cheaper Chinese clones (like the Xiaomi Yi camera) aren't just cheaper attempts to make the same sort of product, but actually using almost all the same internals as their equivalent GoPros.
As time goes on some of GoPro's suppliers are also getting much more convincing competition, with, for example, Novatek catching up on Ambarella.
They don't much of the IP behind the products they offer, nor make many of the parts themselves - instead they just buy everything in - like any of the other camera makers can do.
So some of the much much cheaper Chinese clones (like the Xiaomi Yi camera) aren't just cheaper attempts to make the same sort of product, but actually using almost all the same internals as their equivalent GoPros.
As time goes on some of GoPro's suppliers are also getting much more convincing competition, with, for example, Novatek catching up on Ambarella.
The cheaper Chinese efforts must be destroying their market share.
90% of people don't want 4K or all the wizz bang features. They just want an action cam they can strap to their bike/car/scuba gear and go film some fun. The £40 jobs are easily good enough for this and if you lose one (which happens when using them for these sorts of activities) it's not so heartbreaking.
I've had a GoPro but now use SJCams instead. GoPro is now the premium product used by pros. Everyone else will buy the cheaper branded stuff or the knock offs. You can see GoPro realise this by the introduction of the entry level models which are light on features.
90% of people don't want 4K or all the wizz bang features. They just want an action cam they can strap to their bike/car/scuba gear and go film some fun. The £40 jobs are easily good enough for this and if you lose one (which happens when using them for these sorts of activities) it's not so heartbreaking.
I've had a GoPro but now use SJCams instead. GoPro is now the premium product used by pros. Everyone else will buy the cheaper branded stuff or the knock offs. You can see GoPro realise this by the introduction of the entry level models which are light on features.
Everyone bangs on about specs but forgets the most important spec of all....
The codec!
Gopro gives us Cineform/protune and opens up so much post production.
For cheap laughs with a decent pic go the knock off route.
For custom LUTs, colour grading and high speed NLE editing of action cam footage (not to mention handy cropping due to 4k high bit rates) then GoPro all day long.
I dithered about getting a GoPro for all the reasons above. Read lots of reviews, tried to decide if I needed one at all...
The product is sound though - a lot of the cheap knock-offs are basically cheap. That means variable build quality (focus issues etc.), cheaper processor (poorer frame rate, poor response to lighting changes) and sensor (poor low light performance, colour balance). Whilst 4K playback is not that common, the ability to crop to size is useful and it is usually a sign that the device can do a decent frame rate - which is vital if you're doing sports shots. On the whole, their products reflect the fact that they've got a development budget ten times the size of their rivals.
They have been punished because they lost focus last year - too many different models, and the Session was overpriced. They've fixed that though, and as a result the Session is a little star. It's a great little device, fire-and-forget simple, robust and able to go pretty much anywhere you're likely to go 'out of the box'. The form factor is great and ditching any pretence that this is a 'video camera' in favour of being a straightforward action cam really works. We took a couple on holiday and ended up with a video like this:
https://youtu.be/-vM3K9-Wh_g (Note this is completely amateur stuff - I'm still learning to shoot and edit!)
Their problem is that their market is limited and being eaten at one end by smart phones and at the other end by professional gear. For a lot of consumers, good enough is good enough, so once you've got a GoPro or an iPhone, you're relatively unlikely to buy another one. Even if you care about such things, it takes quite an investment (of time and effort) to turn a whole load of video footage into something anyone actually wants to watch. Their forthcoming editing software may be a big marketing plus if they can make that process easier.
The drone should be interesting - partly because it came out of a fall-out with DJI and partly because investors are pushing them to come up with the next great thing. They're late to the drone market, so they've got a lot to prove which could result in something special.
The product is sound though - a lot of the cheap knock-offs are basically cheap. That means variable build quality (focus issues etc.), cheaper processor (poorer frame rate, poor response to lighting changes) and sensor (poor low light performance, colour balance). Whilst 4K playback is not that common, the ability to crop to size is useful and it is usually a sign that the device can do a decent frame rate - which is vital if you're doing sports shots. On the whole, their products reflect the fact that they've got a development budget ten times the size of their rivals.
They have been punished because they lost focus last year - too many different models, and the Session was overpriced. They've fixed that though, and as a result the Session is a little star. It's a great little device, fire-and-forget simple, robust and able to go pretty much anywhere you're likely to go 'out of the box'. The form factor is great and ditching any pretence that this is a 'video camera' in favour of being a straightforward action cam really works. We took a couple on holiday and ended up with a video like this:
https://youtu.be/-vM3K9-Wh_g (Note this is completely amateur stuff - I'm still learning to shoot and edit!)
Their problem is that their market is limited and being eaten at one end by smart phones and at the other end by professional gear. For a lot of consumers, good enough is good enough, so once you've got a GoPro or an iPhone, you're relatively unlikely to buy another one. Even if you care about such things, it takes quite an investment (of time and effort) to turn a whole load of video footage into something anyone actually wants to watch. Their forthcoming editing software may be a big marketing plus if they can make that process easier.
The drone should be interesting - partly because it came out of a fall-out with DJI and partly because investors are pushing them to come up with the next great thing. They're late to the drone market, so they've got a lot to prove which could result in something special.
Edited by Tuna on Sunday 6th March 19:26
Thanks guys, interesting stuff.
You make some good points Tuna. I enjoyed that video, although I was reminded of this one, : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MAJvgm2eMg
Anyway I have stuck a few quid into Go pro with a few to trickling in a bit more if the stock goes lower short term, I think its a gamble but at the current price not a huge one.
You make some good points Tuna. I enjoyed that video, although I was reminded of this one, : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MAJvgm2eMg
Anyway I have stuck a few quid into Go pro with a few to trickling in a bit more if the stock goes lower short term, I think its a gamble but at the current price not a huge one.
ExPat2B said:
Thanks guys, interesting stuff.
You make some good points Tuna. I enjoyed that video, although I was reminded of this one, : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MAJvgm2eMg
Anyway I have stuck a few quid into Go pro with a few to trickling in a bit more if the stock goes lower short term, I think its a gamble but at the current price not a huge one.
The sad thing is that selfie sticks do tend to take better videos than hand held or (in the case of skiing) body mounted cameras. I've got thousands of pictures and videos of 'stuff I was looking at' from various holidays and looking back at them, with no context, they're boring.You make some good points Tuna. I enjoyed that video, although I was reminded of this one, : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MAJvgm2eMg
Anyway I have stuck a few quid into Go pro with a few to trickling in a bit more if the stock goes lower short term, I think its a gamble but at the current price not a huge one.
The stock could give you a little profit - their editing software is meant to be coming out at the end of the month, and the drone H1 this year I believe. If they're well received, the stock should rebound - though long term I'm not sure where it will go. I'm optimistic about the drone - as I said they've got a lot to prove, and their experience with overpricing the Session should encourage them away from going for an unreasonably premium price point.
GoPros problem is they have hit a bit of a wall as Joe public currently don't have the computing power or the will to properly spend time converting from .mov into uncompressed vid, edit then render.
Not so sure about their SW. Cineform works lightning fast with virtually all pro NLEs right now and Resolve is free. Unless they are doing a compromise to allow editing immediately on an ipad or something (backward step but the public would like this).
The drone sounds good for those wanting the gopro route but you can still get DJI gimbals and the Solo uses the Hero4 and there has just been a massive price cut on these.
I've an old Phantom 2 and a hero 4 gimbal and get rock solid performance.
Also you don't need cheap knock offs when you can get a lightly used 3 for the moments you don't want to use a dearer piece of kit.
Some grading and titling all done with free SW in less than an hour for the Nephew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBJlSAgNKSY
Not so sure about their SW. Cineform works lightning fast with virtually all pro NLEs right now and Resolve is free. Unless they are doing a compromise to allow editing immediately on an ipad or something (backward step but the public would like this).
The drone sounds good for those wanting the gopro route but you can still get DJI gimbals and the Solo uses the Hero4 and there has just been a massive price cut on these.
I've an old Phantom 2 and a hero 4 gimbal and get rock solid performance.
Also you don't need cheap knock offs when you can get a lightly used 3 for the moments you don't want to use a dearer piece of kit.
Some grading and titling all done with free SW in less than an hour for the Nephew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBJlSAgNKSY
V8A*ndy said:
GoPros problem is they have hit a bit of a wall as Joe public currently don't have the computing power or the will to properly spend time converting from .mov into uncompressed vid, edit then render.
Not so sure about their SW. Cineform works lightning fast with virtually all pro NLEs right now and Resolve is free. Unless they are doing a compromise to allow editing immediately on an ipad or something (backward step but the public would like this).
They've bought a couple of companies that do 'editing on your device' apps, and I expect that's the way they'll go - with handy templates that you can drop your content into. The pros that want devices already have them and little reason to upgrade. On the other hand, there are plenty of holiday makers who want to share their fun times on YouTube and are currently finding it too difficult to figure out. If you can do it on your phone by the pool side you're going to be much tempted over fiddly knock of cameras with complicated workflows.Not so sure about their SW. Cineform works lightning fast with virtually all pro NLEs right now and Resolve is free. Unless they are doing a compromise to allow editing immediately on an ipad or something (backward step but the public would like this).
V8A*ndy said:
The drone sounds good for those wanting the gopro route but you can still get DJI gimbals and the Solo uses the Hero4 and there has just been a massive price cut on these.
I've an old Phantom 2 and a hero 4 gimbal and get rock solid performance.
Also you don't need cheap knock offs when you can get a lightly used 3 for the moments you don't want to use a dearer piece of kit.
Some grading and titling all done with free SW in less than an hour for the Nephew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBJlSAgNKSY
The big thing with drones in general is that significantly better autonomous flight is just becoming available. DJI have shown their hand, and for the consumer at least, point and click navigation and obstacle avoidance is going to feel like a huge step forward over 'complicated' two stick controls. Professionals and experienced flyers won't care so much, but they're likely to have kit that they're quite happy enough to keep using, or be planning to buy some of the high end platforms for serious use.
Excellent video BTW - the kids love seeing their 'cool moments' on screen.
Tuna said:
DJI are expected to move away from third party cams, and specifically GoPro after their deal went sour. Both sides are likely to produce kit that 'the enemy' previously supplied.
Excellent video BTW - the kids love seeing their 'cool moments' on screen.
I'm hopefully jumping ship altogether when these guys get their act together.Excellent video BTW - the kids love seeing their 'cool moments' on screen.
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/gb/products/black...
Message Board | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff