feedback & suggestions

[Nigel_O]

Just starting to get to grips with my D810 - before I go to LeMans, I wanted a full day's practice at a motorsports event, so a hospitality ticket for a (mostly) sunny BTCC at Donington was a decent excuse

All of these are straight from the camera - no processing at all (although I'm open to suggestions about what I can do in Lightroom to improve them - several would clearly benefit from a crop and at least one is a bit under-exposed)

I'm at the very bottom of a steep learning curve, so all constructive criticism is gratefully received - please be gentle. This is only a bit of a hobby - I'm not expecting to get to the standard of some of the Pros on here, but I'd like to get some crisp action shots with a bit of atmosphere.

All shots on a D810 with a Sigma 50-500 OS. Shutter priority all day - speeds of 1/250 to 1/400. I'm beginning to think that the Bigma is going to be a limiting factor - I have a Nikkor 70-200 VRII that might have been a bit sharper (would definitely have been faster AF)

Only just signed up for flickr - hopefully all these links will be visible

DSC_0841 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

DSC_0977 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

DSC_1026 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

DSC_1161 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

DSC_1225 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

DSC_1241 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

DSC_1307 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

[silentbrown]

I'd say those aren't bad at all. They're pretty sharp and well focussed, and you've managed the panning and depth of field well to give a good impression of movement.



I'd experiment more with different compositions, angles and positions (and crops). If you can find somewhere (safe!) where you can shoot from lower down, that can help.

[Simpo Two]

Exposure-wise, nothing a little 'shopping' (levels and curves) wouldn't fix. Next time check the histogram as you go and adjust exposure as required. Good technique, very good effort if you've gone straight in with a D810. If you want more b/g blur and your panning is up to it, try dropping the shutter speed.

As mentioned above, the angles are a bit repetitive but that may be a limitation of the track/your position.

[RobDickinson]

Dont be afraid of pushing the files hard, D810 files esp low ISO ones can take a lot of hammering.

Shoot for the (important)highlites and push the shadows.

[Nigel_O]

Thanks for the feedback so far

I tried 1/250 for a few shots, but the hit rate dropped considerably as my panning technique needs some improvement. I was hand-held all day - turns out a D810 with a battery grip and a Bigma is a bit tiring. Monopod next time.

On the basis that I was happiest at about 1/320, what should I be doing with aperture and ISO? I was aiming for around f8 - f10 (f8 being the acknowledged sweet spot on the Bigma). I played with ISO to keep the aperture in this range, but when the sun came out, I was down to around ISO80. My son suggested full manual mode, with shutter speed and aperture set to the desired level and auto ISO to make the necessary adjustments.

I also think I could have chosen a better AF mode - I was using 3D tracking with (I think) 9 focus points (out of the 51 available). I chose this as I thought a moving object would needs some AF help. I'm now wondering if I should have gone for a single-point AF, as I didn't seem to have too much problem keeping the subject in the frame.

I've only uploaded the 3MB jpegs to Flickr - still 36Megapixel, so there must be some heavy compression going on. Is there any point in uploading anything bigger (does Flickr accept RAW?)

Handful more....

DSC_1001 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

DSC_0902 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

DSC_0883 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

DSC_1088 by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

I'll have a go at some post-processing when I get some time - I particularly think the three blue Formula Fords could make a nice cropped shot

[Nigel_O]

silentbrown said:

If you can find somewhere (safe!) where you can shoot from lower down, that can help.

Tough at most circuits for non-press, as you're always going to be behind the catch-fencing. Donington infield is good for getting up high above the track at Craner all the way to Macleans, but not very good from Coppice to Redgate

[Simpo Two]

Nigel_O said:

On the basis that I was happiest at about 1/320, what should I be doing with aperture and ISO? I was aiming for around f8 - f10 (f8 being the acknowledged sweet spot on the Bigma). I played with ISO to keep the aperture in this range, but when the sun came out, I was down to around ISO80. My son suggested full manual mode, with shutter speed and aperture set to the desired level and auto ISO to make the necessary adjustments.

IMHO in this instance the shutter speed is the most important thing, so I'd use shutter speed priority, set that to what gave me the best blurred background/rotating wheels effect. The other parameter that's going to make a difference to the image is aperture, because that controls depth of field. A shallow DOF will help to isolate clutter from foreground and background, but too shallow could mean you miss focus. Experiment. Then you can adjust ISO to get the exposure correct if required.

Mind you I don't do motorsport so if any pros in that field reply, take their advice instead!

[RobDickinson]

If you are going to rely on the metering ( which is valid despite the manual snobs lol) and your main concern is shutter speed then Shutter priority is the goto.

BUT if you want to keep aperture at f8 and shutter speed fixed and have the meter work then yes manual mode with auto ISO should do.

[Craikeybaby]

I was there on Saturday, when it wasn't quite as sunny.

As a beginner there are some good shots there.

In Lightroom, you could improve a few of the pictures quickly with the crop tool, remove anything distracting from the edge of the frame, especially if it is out of focus. In Lightroom it is easy to play around with the composition.

With panning practice is key - keep at it.

With regards to Le Mans, I prefer not to take a DSLR, I have previously but it is a lot busier than a BTCC event, with few places to take photos without a catch fence in the way.

[Nigel_O]

Simpo Two said:

A shallow DOF will help to isolate clutter from foreground and background, but too shallow could mean you miss focus. Experiment. Then you can adjust ISO to get the exposure correct if required.

At the focal lengths I was using on Sunday, the Sigma 50-500 widest aperture is about 5.5-6.3, so I was never going to get a really shallow DoF. A few of the "how to photograph motorsport" tutorials I read suggested f8 was the sweet spot.

I also have a Nikkor 70-200 f2.8, which would give be an extremely shallow DoF, but I'll have a play with it and see what the results are. I'll probably struggle with focus, but its a very fast AF, so I may get away with it

[Nigel_O]

Craikeybaby said:

With regards to Le Mans, I prefer not to take a DSLR, I have previously but it is a lot busier than a BTCC event, with few places to take photos without a catch fence in the way.

I'm 'glamping' at Porsche Curves, which has its own private banking which means I can see over the fencing - we also discovered a good view up to Dunlop Bridge over the Esses from Tertre Rouge (although I'm told its even better from the infield). Now I've got a camera with good high ISO performance and a couple of good low-light lenses, I'm going to try a lot more night shots, so it should be far less busy

Other than that, I'm going to have to learn how to make the fence disappear...

[jurbie]

Nigel_O said:

Tough at most circuits for non-press, as you're always going to be behind the catch-fencing. Donington infield is good for getting up high above the track at Craner all the way to Macleans, but not very good from Coppice to Redgate

Don't be afraid to shoot through the fence. Maximum zoom, wide open aperture and maybe a tweak of contrast in post processing will give you perfectly acceptable shots. Just make sure the sun isn't behind you lighting up the fence.

The pictures you've posted so far show you have a good grasp of the basics so your next task is to go to some other meetings and work on your panning and composition. If you want to capture the atmosphere of the event then don't get hung up on placing the cars front and centre of the frame but instead use the rule of thirds and place it off-centre with an interesting/clean background. Easier said then done at most UK circuits but as a general point you need to be aware of the background of the shot and be prepared to move to a few feet left or right to get it looking right. Things to avoid in the background are tractors, ambulances, marshalls, portaloos, advertisements and photographers.

[ukaskew]

Nigel_O said:

At the focal lengths I was using on Sunday, the Sigma 50-500 widest aperture is about 5.5-6.3, so I was never going to get a really shallow DoF. A few of the "how to photograph motorsport" tutorials I read suggested f8 was the sweet spot.

I also have a Nikkor 70-200 f2.8, which would give be an extremely shallow DoF, but I'll have a play with it and see what the results are. I'll probably struggle with focus, but its a very fast AF, so I may get away with it

I would forget aperture. You won't get shallow DoF at the distances you're shooting motorsport from and especially not when panning, even if you do have an f2.8 lens, and if you want to use a reasonably slow shutter speed to introduce movement you're very unlikely to be getting anywhere near wide open anyway.

I'm normally bouncing around f16-f22 but I don't pay any attention to it, don't worry about sweet spots. Stick it in Shutter Priority, pick a shutter speed you're comfortable with, ISO100 and just concentrate on technique. In my experience Single Point AF is perfectly good to use, even the best tracking modes can struggle with motorsport.

I wrote a Fuji specific guide but the general tips will work for anything: http://www.fujifun.net/motorsport-guide/

Edited by ukaskew on Tuesday 19th April 13:03

Edited by ukaskew on Tuesday 19th April 13:05

[Nigel_O]

Found some time to have a play with three of the images from the first post.

I don't yet understand the histograms in Lightroom (or more accurately, I understand what they are showing me, but I don't understand what I'm aiming for, or what is 'good') - so, I've done a bit of cropping, a bit of straightening, a bit of exposure juggling, contrast adjustment, whites & blacks etc and even a bit of re-touching on one image. I didn't really know what I was aiming for, but I knew when I thought it looked better than the original

So - some post-processing feedback please

Formula Ford trio by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

Matt Neal by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

Simspon & Howard by Nigel Ogram, on Flickr

[malks222]

I like them! only criticism would be on the first photograph is the cars are not even on the photo, could do with equal spacing on the framing for me, the last car is too close to the edge of the fame for me.

[RobDickinson]

Be careful of cropping too tight, moving things need space to head into often, and often a subject is more powerful when placed in its setting rather than isolated.

[tonyb1968]

The histogram is very useful, it can improve your shots from being over or under exposed, just by looking at it and deciding which way to go.
I am definitely no master at it but have a basic understanding that you need to try to keep it from going outside the dynamic range.

Got this here which explains it better than I can, Lightroom can pull some back but if its outside that dynamic range then its gone

https://luminous-landscape.com/understanding-histo...

HTH

PS, pics are really nice

[silentbrown]

Hope you don't mind, but I tweaked the third a little with a rotate and crop. With images that good to start with you can crop very agressively, unless you want to make poster-size prints.



And, a rather more OTT version of one, showing the kind of tricks you can easily play with Lightroom...

Edited by silentbrown on Monday 25th April 23:19