S2 in trouble in Kent.
Discussion
Anyone out there with a caring disposition and sympathy for a bloke tearing out what little hair he has left with frustration ?
My S2 is running filthy rich and with a tickover of 2000 rpm.
Mechanic is stumped and I am now broke! I have spent so long under the bnnet I can't stand up strait and wife will soon take the kids and leave.
HELP ME PLEASE S2 lovers!
My S2 is running filthy rich and with a tickover of 2000 rpm.
Mechanic is stumped and I am now broke! I have spent so long under the bnnet I can't stand up strait and wife will soon take the kids and leave.
HELP ME PLEASE S2 lovers!
Thanks for that and I will try again to see the exact result.We BELIEVE it is a 2.9 as on the registration but it could be a 2.8 as the components I have tried from breakers have been 2.8 and fitted OK.
Is there an easy way to tell?
I have taken the connector off before and think the revs fell away but resumed when I connected it again.I will re-test as can't be sure now, have done so much mucking about.Have changed the Airflow meters(Twice),the air bypass valve(called idle speed control unit on your info)the sensors for engine and petrol temp,the entire front wiring loom,the petrol flow regulator,the petrol filter.Tried a replacement ECU and more...
Will get back to you by posting new message asap,and thanks.
Is there an easy way to tell?
I have taken the connector off before and think the revs fell away but resumed when I connected it again.I will re-test as can't be sure now, have done so much mucking about.Have changed the Airflow meters(Twice),the air bypass valve(called idle speed control unit on your info)the sensors for engine and petrol temp,the entire front wiring loom,the petrol flow regulator,the petrol filter.Tried a replacement ECU and more...
Will get back to you by posting new message asap,and thanks.
With regards to the rev's running at 2000rpm sounds exactly like the problem I had when my throttle pot went earlier this year. The ecu uses the TP to work out the throttle position and its rate of change therefore if this is faulty its likely that the ecu could be telling the engine to pump more fuel in ..
I would replace this first and if that does not help I would look at the following ..
check that the air filter is clean
try also cleaning the throttle body.
Check the fuel return pipe from fuel regulator is not damaged / squashed or blocked
check the coolant temperature sensor is working correctly at the ecu end of the wiring.
Check all the vacuum pipes for leaks.
check the timing.
does adjusting the idle mixture screw on the airflow meter make any difference ?
Also is it running rich on all the cylinders ?
Hopefully there is something here that you have not tried yet !...
good luck
Trev.
I would replace this first and if that does not help I would look at the following ..
check that the air filter is clean
try also cleaning the throttle body.
Check the fuel return pipe from fuel regulator is not damaged / squashed or blocked
check the coolant temperature sensor is working correctly at the ecu end of the wiring.
Check all the vacuum pipes for leaks.
check the timing.
does adjusting the idle mixture screw on the airflow meter make any difference ?
Also is it running rich on all the cylinders ?
Hopefully there is something here that you have not tried yet !...
good luck
Trev.
I think you can tell if it is a 2.9 as the plenum chamber (the silver thing on top of the engine) is stamped with a big EFI in the middle on the 2.9. 
With regards to the tickover, check that the throttle butterfly is returning fully closed. I had a similar problem, it wouldn't idle below about 1500 RPM, when I pressed the butterfly spindle against the stop with my finger it dropped back down to ~900. May also be that someone has turned the throttle stop and it is being kept open by that.
The spring return for the throttle is not particularly strong and if grit has worked its way in then the throttle won't fully close. I cleaned it up with de-greaser then sprayed it with a light silicon lubriucant (for my bicycle chain, but it seems to do the job). I think any light oil would be OK.
Good luck
Colin
With regards to the tickover, check that the throttle butterfly is returning fully closed. I had a similar problem, it wouldn't idle below about 1500 RPM, when I pressed the butterfly spindle against the stop with my finger it dropped back down to ~900. May also be that someone has turned the throttle stop and it is being kept open by that.
The spring return for the throttle is not particularly strong and if grit has worked its way in then the throttle won't fully close. I cleaned it up with de-greaser then sprayed it with a light silicon lubriucant (for my bicycle chain, but it seems to do the job). I think any light oil would be OK.
Good luck
Colin
tim fleming said:
Thanks for that and I will try again to see the exact result.We BELIEVE it is a 2.9 as on the registration but it could be a 2.8 as the components I have tried from breakers have been 2.8 and fitted OK.
Is there an easy way to tell?
I have taken the connector off before and think the revs fell away but resumed when I connected it again.I will re-test as can't be sure now, have done so much mucking about.Have changed the Airflow meters(Twice),the air bypass valve(called idle speed control unit on your info)the sensors for engine and petrol temp,the entire front wiring loom,the petrol flow regulator,the petrol filter.Tried a replacement ECU and more...
Will get back to you by posting new message asap,and thanks.
Oi !!!!
That's a 2.9 definitely !!!
I'm still thinking about it Tim and have to conclude it is most likely the throttle pot, but if I can get over on Saturday I will.
johno said:
Oi !!!!
That's a 2.9 definitely !!!
I'm still thinking about it Tim and have to conclude it is most likely the throttle pot, but if I can get over on Saturday I will.
is this F908 per chance?
F907 and 904 are arranging a photo session....
>> Edited by shnozz on Friday 28th May 09:54
shnozz said:
Oi !!!!
That's a 2.9 definitely !!!
I'm still thinking about it Tim and have to conclude it is most likely the throttle pot, but if I can get over on Saturday I will.
is this F908 per chance?
F907 and 904 are arranging a photo session....
>> Edited by shnozz on Friday 28th May 09:54
It is indeed F908, my trusty old steed !!
F908 it is indeed.
Throttle pot was changed for a new one which made no difference so we sent it back and I returned the old one again.The butterfly's seem still to fit and return to position perfectly and throttle springs and return all function OK.
Air filter clean,Petrol pipe and return both seem ok and both filter and regulator changed.Coolant temp sensor,the white one, replaced with new one and resistances all seem correct.Vacuum pipes good and no difference to rpm when disconnected.Timing unchanged from last week when ran at 400 rpm idle !Adjustment to airflow meters(3rd test set) reduces mixture only when at very bottom setting to 1.5 parts,(was at 0.8 last week) but tickover will not reduce below 1200 rpm even at that setting.When restarting cold,very lumpy with tickover very erratic and settling at 2000 again. when warm,eratic still but settles back to about 12-1500.
Rich on all cylinders we believe.We changed oil last week because so much petrol had gone in I was afraid of bore washing but compression on all remains the same and good.Throttle by-pass cylinder changed twice for breakers replacements and front wiring loom also replaced so all terminal connections are checked and good.edu was changed temporarily but the problem remained so was returned. Tricky one ain't it!
More ideas... PLEASE!
Throttle pot was changed for a new one which made no difference so we sent it back and I returned the old one again.The butterfly's seem still to fit and return to position perfectly and throttle springs and return all function OK.
Air filter clean,Petrol pipe and return both seem ok and both filter and regulator changed.Coolant temp sensor,the white one, replaced with new one and resistances all seem correct.Vacuum pipes good and no difference to rpm when disconnected.Timing unchanged from last week when ran at 400 rpm idle !Adjustment to airflow meters(3rd test set) reduces mixture only when at very bottom setting to 1.5 parts,(was at 0.8 last week) but tickover will not reduce below 1200 rpm even at that setting.When restarting cold,very lumpy with tickover very erratic and settling at 2000 again. when warm,eratic still but settles back to about 12-1500.
Rich on all cylinders we believe.We changed oil last week because so much petrol had gone in I was afraid of bore washing but compression on all remains the same and good.Throttle by-pass cylinder changed twice for breakers replacements and front wiring loom also replaced so all terminal connections are checked and good.edu was changed temporarily but the problem remained so was returned. Tricky one ain't it!
More ideas... PLEASE!
Hi Tim,
I am 904
Sorry to hear you are having problems
Were you in Bracknell per chance last Tuesday 18th RichardR thought he spotted me but now we think maybe it was you. If not then it could be another blue PRK
Anyway I am soon to arrange a photo with 907 in Southampton which I guess is a little far for you from Kent. Hopefully we can sort out getting all three together at a more central location once you are up and running smoothly again.
I am 904
Sorry to hear you are having problems
Were you in Bracknell per chance last Tuesday 18th RichardR thought he spotted me but now we think maybe it was you. If not then it could be another blue PRK
Anyway I am soon to arrange a photo with 907 in Southampton which I guess is a little far for you from Kent. Hopefully we can sort out getting all three together at a more central location once you are up and running smoothly again.
tim fleming said:
Vacuum pipes good and no difference to rpm when disconnected.
There is another option here ..... and this car did it to me for ages and ages and ages until I found out that the servo had a hole in it, the vacuum supply from the plenum was actually feeding the engine far too much air and it was impossible to set up. I am just wondering whether something similar has happened and the ecu is overcompensating and pouring in loads of fuels.
Have you replaced or checked the fuel pressure regualtor Tim ??
Hi chaps,I do appreciate the help here.Thanks to you all.
Yes 904,twas me in Bracknell when I saw my shadow in the multi storey car park waving.
I would love to have done the shoot but not at the moment I am afraid!
'Injectors' wonders Claire(are you the owner of another blue S2 who visits friends in Biddenden?)
Well,we dont think so because the mixture and the tickover keep changing.Both were fine last week,(for the first time in six weeks), the tickover had gone backwards and settled on 400rpm rather than the normal 800-900 I am used to.It ran perfectly for one week.This week its at 2000 and i cant see injectors being the fault here...but I am open to correction.
If I can't find the answer elsewhere will get them inspected and cleaned/replaced.
'Vacuum pipes'? Well I have given them a thorough check over but will do so again in view of what you say.The fuel pressure regulator I changed this week to no avail.
This weekend I will be checking over the throttle pot area again and replacing the potentiometer with a spare,but a new one bought and returned last month did not change a thing.
The air bypass valve,or idle speed control valve as I believe it is also called,is,I assume controlled by the potentiometer on the end of the throttle pot,indicating to the ECU the butterfly positions.Is there any way of testing them? though I have replaced it twice with new ones from breakers,I still think the bypass valve could be a factor.Advice please.
I hope for better luck this week but am clutching at straws here!
Yes 904,twas me in Bracknell when I saw my shadow in the multi storey car park waving.
I would love to have done the shoot but not at the moment I am afraid!
'Injectors' wonders Claire(are you the owner of another blue S2 who visits friends in Biddenden?)
Well,we dont think so because the mixture and the tickover keep changing.Both were fine last week,(for the first time in six weeks), the tickover had gone backwards and settled on 400rpm rather than the normal 800-900 I am used to.It ran perfectly for one week.This week its at 2000 and i cant see injectors being the fault here...but I am open to correction.
If I can't find the answer elsewhere will get them inspected and cleaned/replaced.
'Vacuum pipes'? Well I have given them a thorough check over but will do so again in view of what you say.The fuel pressure regulator I changed this week to no avail.
This weekend I will be checking over the throttle pot area again and replacing the potentiometer with a spare,but a new one bought and returned last month did not change a thing.
The air bypass valve,or idle speed control valve as I believe it is also called,is,I assume controlled by the potentiometer on the end of the throttle pot,indicating to the ECU the butterfly positions.Is there any way of testing them? though I have replaced it twice with new ones from breakers,I still think the bypass valve could be a factor.Advice please.
I hope for better luck this week but am clutching at straws here!
The potentiometer is controlled by the butterfly spindle. The air by-pass valve just allows air around the butterfly when it is closed. There are a couple of holes in the side of the plenum either side of the butterfly valve under the air bypass valve. When the valve is activated it allows air to flow out through one and back in the other.
Hope you find it. Sounds electrical to me the way it keeps changing, bad joint or something similar?
Colin
Hope you find it. Sounds electrical to me the way it keeps changing, bad joint or something similar?
Colin
tim fleming said:
Hi chaps,I do appreciate the help here.Thanks to you all.
Yes 904,twas me in Bracknell when I saw my shadow in the multi storey car park waving.
I would love to have done the shoot but not at the moment I am afraid!
'Injectors' wonders Claire(are you the owner of another blue S2 who visits friends in Biddenden?)
I certainly am ... it was me who passed your business card onto Johno. Mind you, they have now moved to Frittenden and I am down there now and then with 904.
I always look out for you ... I hope you manage to get 908 running smoothly again soon.
Tim,
Sorry, but I'm going to make it down today as I'm at work right now and late getting to friends in Kent as it is.
I will continue to have a ponder, but may try and get over to see you.
I would however suggest going to a rolling road to see whether they could determine the issue. ??
Sorry mate !!
Cheers
Mark
Sorry, but I'm going to make it down today as I'm at work right now and late getting to friends in Kent as it is.
I will continue to have a ponder, but may try and get over to see you.
I would however suggest going to a rolling road to see whether they could determine the issue. ??
Sorry mate !!
Cheers
Mark
Tim, have you tried unplugging the idle speed control valve, tie the connector out of the way of the alternator pulley. If the revs drop back to 900-1000rpm then the idle valve needs cleaning with carb cleaner(remove the actuator first)or it needs a replacement. Fit a new paper gasket when you re-fit the valve.
YB
YB
S2 in Kent sounds Good!
Hey chaps...think I got a result!
F908 is back purring at 900 rpm on idle and mixture at 1.2 smells a lot better too!
I think it was after all the potentiometer(throttle pot)because changing it for a different looking one from another 2.9 at breakers seems to have it sorted. Now its test,test,test but I am smiling again and the wife and kids are still about the place,I know,I saw them only yesterday i'm sure.
A big thankyou to everyone who contributed.Now I need to attend to a whining diff which I think is the upshot of all the rough running and even rougher handling it got at the garage!
My fingers are crossed and time will tell,but I think I am on the road again in Kent. Cheers.
Hey chaps...think I got a result!
F908 is back purring at 900 rpm on idle and mixture at 1.2 smells a lot better too!
I think it was after all the potentiometer(throttle pot)because changing it for a different looking one from another 2.9 at breakers seems to have it sorted. Now its test,test,test but I am smiling again and the wife and kids are still about the place,I know,I saw them only yesterday i'm sure.
A big thankyou to everyone who contributed.Now I need to attend to a whining diff which I think is the upshot of all the rough running and even rougher handling it got at the garage!
My fingers are crossed and time will tell,but I think I am on the road again in Kent. Cheers.
tim fleming said:Hi Tim,
Yes 904,twas me in Bracknell when I saw my shadow in the multi storey car park waving.
Just seen this thread, hence the delayed reply. It was me you saw in Bracknell the other day. It was certainly a bit of a surprise to see another S cruising round the car park!
I'm around Bracknell in the S most weekdays, so keep an eye out for me if you're up this way again.
Cheers,
Richard
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