Discussion
Someone mentioned that when shifting down on bends in an S, the wheels can very easily lock, and when they do, fast reactions are needed to prevent the car from spinning out. The bloke also mentioned power oversteer...
Yesterday, whilst pulling away in the wet in my girlfriends 28 BHP Tigra, the wheels spun freely at low revs, and being new on the driving AND the TVR scene, memories came flooding back from the cerbera forum, in which I recalled owners saying they didn't dare take their cars out in the snow/ice, and some of them not even in the wet
Can anyone advise just how easy to loose control, how much care is needed (compared to other cars?) and sensitive a V8S is in the wet? I do tend to use engine braking to a degree as I feel more in control then clutch coasting, I do take care and do not drive fast by any stretch(!) but being as inexperienced as I am, I want to be both aware and alert so as not to become over confident in time.
Yesterday, whilst pulling away in the wet in my girlfriends 28 BHP Tigra, the wheels spun freely at low revs, and being new on the driving AND the TVR scene, memories came flooding back from the cerbera forum, in which I recalled owners saying they didn't dare take their cars out in the snow/ice, and some of them not even in the wet
Can anyone advise just how easy to loose control, how much care is needed (compared to other cars?) and sensitive a V8S is in the wet? I do tend to use engine braking to a degree as I feel more in control then clutch coasting, I do take care and do not drive fast by any stretch(!) but being as inexperienced as I am, I want to be both aware and alert so as not to become over confident in time.
Podie said:Got 2 days booked, one on a wet skidpan, the other at the TRL track doing vehicle dynamics stuff... also some road tuition booked coz I need it
Book a track day… find your limits, and the cars limits… 
First the roads, then the track. My limits are several gargantuan sized notches down from those of the S, and racing around the track is not the place for me...
ukbob said:
Someone mentioned that when shifting down on bends in an S, the wheels can very easily lock, and when they do, fast reactions are needed to prevent the car from spinning out. The bloke also mentioned power oversteer...
I agree with Podie! Yes not advisable to change down on a bend, especially in the wet, the LSD cuts in and you can easily loose control!
Mike
I would not engine brake in a TVR unless its very very gentle. Even gently in the wet can cause the back end to lock up. Whilst you are gaining experience I would be inclined to simply use the brakes and then change into gear. As you become more experience start to match the engine revs to the gear you are changing into.
V8Smith said:
I agree with Podie! Yes not advisable to change down on a bend, especially in the wet, the LSD cuts in and you can easily loose control!
Ahem... that wasn't Podie that was me!
[/pathetic whinge mode off]
Agree with all of the above - gentle engine braking in a straight line should be ok, but on bends in a RWD, it's not a great idea...
shnozz said:
I would not engine brake in a TVR unless its very very gentle. Even gently in the wet can cause the back end to lock up. Whilst you are gaining experience I would be inclined to simply use the brakes and then change into gear. As you become more experience start to match the engine revs to the gear you are changing into.
Its been many years since I had driving lessons and it was normal to be taught engine brake down through the gears such that the driver remained in control of the vehicle. Isn't it the case nowadays that learners are instructed to do exactly the opposite ie. brake up to junction not changing down and only hit the clutch moments before the car will stall ?
Irrespective, unless I'm hooning it and keeping the revs up, I tend to make the brakes take the strain rather than the engine - also its cheaper to replace some brake pads than it is a clutch.
And Bob, never change gear mid corner - try it on the track at speed and see what can happen !!
Agree with all the above...
Think of the dynamics...
The weight balance of the car when driving....
As you are slowing/braking the weight is shifted toward the front of the car.
When using the brakes, the bias gives more braking to the front end.
If you change down a gear, the rotational speed of the wheels decreases rapidly to match engine speed if selected too early.
As there is reduced weight on the rear wheels they will tend to lock up.
This will then completely upset the balance of the car causing loss of control.
There is a fine line between engine braking into corners, there is a balance between using brakes and engine to slow the car and to be in the correct gear on exit.
I would suggest that you use standard safe braking into corners until you have the knowledge required to balance between engine and brakes....
My 2p worth anyway..
Dave
Think of the dynamics...
The weight balance of the car when driving....
As you are slowing/braking the weight is shifted toward the front of the car.
When using the brakes, the bias gives more braking to the front end.
If you change down a gear, the rotational speed of the wheels decreases rapidly to match engine speed if selected too early.
As there is reduced weight on the rear wheels they will tend to lock up.
This will then completely upset the balance of the car causing loss of control.
There is a fine line between engine braking into corners, there is a balance between using brakes and engine to slow the car and to be in the correct gear on exit.
I would suggest that you use standard safe braking into corners until you have the knowledge required to balance between engine and brakes....
My 2p worth anyway..
Dave
Right, got the picture. Never do speed or lsd whilst braking into a bender 
Can the wheels lock (or the car do something dodgy) on a wet straight, if shifting down and clutching out too sharply?
Edited to say: I just read your post Bridgdav, and will leave the engine braking alone
>> Edited by ukbob on Thursday 22 July 12:42
Can the wheels lock (or the car do something dodgy) on a wet straight, if shifting down and clutching out too sharply?
Edited to say: I just read your post Bridgdav, and will leave the engine braking alone
>> Edited by ukbob on Thursday 22 July 12:42
ukbob said:
Can the wheels lock (or the car do something dodgy) on a wet straight, if shifting down and clutching out too sharply?
Yep...Same as I said above.. If the wheels lock at any time there is a loss of control (unless you are experianced)
If the car is in any way unbalanced the car would probably veer to one side, spin etc etc etc..
Even the Camber of the road can make the car unbalanced in a skid...
ukbob said:
Can the wheels lock (or the car do something dodgy) on a wet straight, if shifting down and clutching out too sharply?
yes. whether its straight or on a bend if you dump the clutch going down the gears it can lock the wheels. Its just on a bend = do not pass go, do not collect £200, go straight to bush. On the straight you might, if you are lucky, catch it before you spin
ukbob said:
Book a track day… find your limits, and the cars limits…
Got 2 days booked, one on a wet skidpan, the other at the TRL track doing vehicle dynamics stuff... also some road tuition booked coz I need it
The banked corner at TRL is good fun.. takes nerve to take it flat though..
bridgedave said:Not about to give out driving advice- don't claim to be that great but I always change down for braking (before the corner) and not once have I locked up. I assume the reference is to people who rely on the synchromesh - I always blip the throttle to match revs/wheel speed - easier on clutch, and sounds good too (can't believe anyone would do otherwise - I do it even when it isn't necessary!)
If you change down a gear, the rotational speed of the wheels decreases rapidly to match engine speed if selected too early.
Have I missed the point? If you match revs to new gear, why would you induce lock/spin?
shnozz said:Podie? (must be
go straight to bush.
) 
tvrgit said:
I agree with Podie! Yes not advisable to change down on a bend, especially in the wet, the LSD cuts in and you can easily loose control!
Ahem... that wasn't Podie that was me!
[/pathetic whinge mode off]
Agree with all of the above - gentle engine braking in a straight line should be ok, but on bends in a RWD, it's not a great idea...
Sorry tvrgit, maybe it wasnt clear! I was agreeing with Podie about track experience! Then went on to say not advisable to change.....etc!
Mike
bridgdav said:
Can the wheels lock (or the car do something dodgy) on a wet straight, if shifting down and clutching out too sharply?
Yep...Same as I said above.. If the wheels lock at any time there is a loss of control (unless you are experianced)
If the car is in any way unbalanced the car would probably veer to one side, spin etc etc etc..
Even the Camber of the road can make the car unbalanced in a skid...
Done that. MK roundabout very greasy road, very difficult to catch. Clutch in, lift off brakes and rebrake before roundabout. The less weight you have in the rear the worse it becomes, so with a nearly empty tank and the roof on things can get a bit silly.
Good heel/toe technique helps, but bad technique can lead to a lot more problems. Have a practice on the track if you have a chance.
Z
Podie said:Robb Gravett took me round the pan in a Modena at FULL pelt
The banked corner at TRL is good fun.. takes nerve to take it flat though..
once. I took him round in his Z3... not sure who was more scared of whose driving style Just booked into Austecs for the sports pipes and electrics sorting sesh on the 18th!
Mikes a great guy - says he knows you well!!
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