Turbo Project - Engine Selection 2.8 or 2.9 ??

[M@H]

As some of you will have read, I'm planning to Turbocharge my S.. only a mild 6-7psi boost as I don't want HUGE power, just a bit more grunt and torque.

In one area, I have two options available to me though, and I can't decide which to follow so perhaps some of you with some knowledge can help me out with your thoughts.

Option 1.

Use the 2.8 engine with its K-jet system and effectively do a "simple" Forced Indcution setup on it so the intake is pressurised. As the K-jet system is not ECU based and merely adds a constant fuel jet to the inlet side of the engine, the Forced Indcution will help to a point, and then I'm expecting to run into problems of a very lean mixture as the PSI increases which will be difficult to solve.

Pro's
Simpler to do, only have to fabricate manifolds, exhaust, ducting etc.
Engine already in car.
Cheap(ish)

Con's
Fuelling issues?
Less power anyway as the engine is hampered by the siamesed ports.

Option 2.

Use a 2.9 engine instead, complete with the EFI setup, and add the Forced Indcution setup to this. As this uses the ECU to control the fuel to each cylinder I should be able to use a piggyback chip to sort out the fuelling issues to a greater degree and have less of a problem of a lean mixture.

Pro's.
2.9 has the better head porting.
More control over engine management.

Cons's
A wholly more complicated process than Option 1.
Engine required plus hassle of engine swap.
Costs much higher (eg chip and RR setup, new engine)

What do you chaps think.. as I'm not trying to get the maximum BHP out of the engine (as the rest of the car wouldn't handle it anyway) just give it a bit more grunt, I don't necessarily need anything complicated either, but don't want to mess up an engine for the sake of it.

Over to you..

Cheers
Matt.

[HarryW]

Matt as a possible third option, is to forget the low boost turbo all together and see what a fully mapped ignition system could do for the lump. It is possibly a non starter as I haven't look into it, but the Tas racer boys almost certainly will have. Certainly worth asking the question though, not even got a cles as to the expected outputs but worth considering, IMHO etc....
Re the 2.9 route if going down this I would be tempted to bypass the standard lump in favour of an old 24v unit. If you use down draft carbs it could be a fairly simple thing, no ECU , lots of grunt and power and not necessary too hard on the pocket either.

Harry

[joospeed]

You can overfuel turbo cars muuch more than n/a cars, so ading extra fuel through two pressure controlled injectors could be your answer .. crude but only comes on with boost / revs / throttle opening.

I'd go for the turbo 2.8, as you say you don't want massive torque, just a gain. So just turbo the 2.8.

Turbo technics might have some boost-modified control pressure regulators from the old capri / xr4 days, or you might fnd something in a scrapyard? ..

[M@H]

HarryW said:

Matt as a possible third option, is to forget the low boost turbo all together and see what a fully mapped ignition system could do for the lump.

..how do I do that on the 2.8 without an aftermarket OMEX ECU or similar.. that would cost me about £2500 with all the sensors and stuff..?

[greenv8s]

Mechanical fuel injection doesn't sound like a good starting point. If possible, your best option would probably be to pinch the engine management system or maybe the whole engine, from a turboed car using the same base engine. Sounds like an ambitous project, good luck with it.

[HarryW]

M@H said:

HarryW said: Matt as a possible third option, is to forget the low boost turbo all together and see what a fully mapped ignition system could do for the lump. ..how do I do that on the 2.8 without an aftermarket OMEX ECU or similar.. that would cost me about £2500 with all the sensors and stuff..?

I did say I haven't looked into it, but the Taz boys might have .
However are you sure of those prices, a stand alone OMEX ignition ECU with wiring loom etc should come in at around £600 .

Harry

[johno]

Why not buy Dave's 24v Cosworth Development lump and drop it into the car. I nearly did with mine ....

[M@H]

johno said:

Why not buy Dave's 24v Cosworth Development lump and drop it into the car. I nearly did with mine ....

Cos I can't afford it and I just want to do something minor(ish) which is not irremovable, not too expensive, and will give good results I'm not questing for ULTIMATE power here..

>> Edited by M@H on Wednesday 24th March 12:55

[Paul V]

A 2-litre cossie lump tempted me when I had my S, there are so many more tuning options over the V6 engine and overall power could be had a lot cheaper.

Maybe time to look out for an S with a blown engine

[johno]

This was a V6, not a 4 pot ...... sits up the back at Tower View ...

[M@H]

HarryW said:

M@H said: HarryW said: Matt as a possible third option, is to forget the low boost turbo all together and see what a fully mapped ignition system could do for the lump. ..how do I do that on the 2.8 without an aftermarket OMEX ECU or similar.. that would cost me about £2500 with all the sensors and stuff..? I did say I haven't looked into it, but the Taz boys might have . However are you sure of those prices, a stand alone OMEX ignition ECU with wiring loom etc should come in at around £600 . Harry

Do you mean a Mapped Ignition System instead of an Engine Management System..?

OMEX pricelist: www.omextechnology.co.uk/Omex%20EM%20Retail%20Jan%202004.doc

Cheers
Matt.

[M@H]

greenv8s said:

Mechanical fuel injection doesn't sound like a good starting point. If possible, your best option would probably be to pinch the engine management system or maybe the whole engine, from a turboed car using the same base engine. Sounds like an ambitous project, good luck with it.

Hmmm...an interesting idea.. I don't know how the 2.8 Tickford capri did it, I don't think it was ECU based though.. ? and I can't think of any other instances of the 2.8 in Turbo Form..

[M@H]

HarryW said:

If you use down draft carbs it could be a fairly simple thing, no ECU , lots of grunt and power and not necessary too hard on the pocket either. Harry

Imagine the Hole in the bonnet for the Carbs though

[HarryW]

M@H said:

HarryW said: M@H said: HarryW said: Matt as a possible third option, is to forget the low boost turbo all together and see what a fully mapped ignition system could do for the lump. ..how do I do that on the 2.8 without an aftermarket OMEX ECU or similar.. that would cost me about £2500 with all the sensors and stuff..? I did say I haven't looked into it, but the Taz boys might have . However are you sure of those prices, a stand alone OMEX ignition ECU with wiring loom etc should come in at around £600 . Harry Do you mean a Mapped Ignition System instead of an Engine Management System..? OMEX pricelist: www.omextechnology.co.uk/Omex%20EM%20Retail%20Jan%202004.doc Cheers Matt.

Thats the one, the 150. You should be able to use most of your existing sensors, not sure what a 2.8 has though.
Don't know what it can give you though but typically should broaden the Torque curve nicely. However you really need to speak to someone that has done it to get the real cost and imporvements, if not he Taz boys then perhaps the capri owners club.

Harry

[andyf007]

Typical Performance Figures for a Turbo Technics 2.8i Capri are

Maximum Power - 200 bhp (149Kw) @ 5,500 rpm
Maximum Torque - 247lbs--ft (320Nm) @ 3,800 rpm
0 - 60 mph ~ 6.5 seconds
0 - 100 mph ~ 14.8 seconds
Maximum Speed ~ 143 mph

Try here for a bit more info www.ford-capri.fsnet.co.uk/turbo/

Andy

[Podie]

M@H said:

greenv8s said: Mechanical fuel injection doesn't sound like a good starting point. If possible, your best option would probably be to pinch the engine management system or maybe the whole engine, from a turboed car using the same base engine. Sounds like an ambitous project, good luck with it. Hmmm...an interesting idea.. I don't know how the 2.8 Tickford capri did it, I don't think it was ECU based though.. ? and I can't think of any other instances of the 2.8 in Turbo Form..

Can dig out Tickford info for you, given time. Turbo Technics kits are still about... saw one for sale recently for about £300. Again, I can dig out info on the 2.8 and turbo kits if required... but give me a week or so as I'd need to make a few calls.

[M@H]

OOoo...

Thanks Andy, the site lists this gem:

Technical Specifications

Turbocharger

Turbo Technics assembled Garrett T3 with integral wastegate pressure control. The turbo is mounted on the nearside with a link pipe carrying gas across from the off-side manifold.
Exhaust Manifold
Multi-branch manifold designed for pulse separation, cast in high nickel iron.
Exhaust System
A new downpipe couples to the standard system in front of the main silencer boxes.
Air Supply
Air supply is through the standard filter to the compressor, then cooled by a front mounted intercooler before passing to the standard inlet manifold.
Fuel System
The standard injection system is retained with minor modification.
Ignition
The standard high energy electronic ignition is retained, with a modified characteristic incorporating a vacuum advance / pressure retard capsule. Wide heat-range spark plugs are employed, with silicone high tension leads.
Lubrication
An oil supply is taken from the main engine feed via aeroquip pipe to the turbo, returning to the sump.
Cooling
The standard radiator is retained.
Service
Apart from different spark plugs and ignition timing, servicing is unaltered.


So they've used the standard Injection System.. no ECU !!
Cheers
Matt

[M@H]

Hi Podie.. thanks for the thought.. I wouldn't use the TurboTechnics kit though as the Garret T3 turbo doesn't spool up and give much in the way of gain before about 4000 rpm. I plan to use two little turbo's which will spool quickly to give boost at 2-2500 rpm instead. Any info on the fueling side would be much appreciated

Cheers
Matt

>> Edited by M@H on Wednesday 24th March 13:37

[andyf007]

Thought you might like the site, engine bay photos look quite useful too. I had a friend a few years back who claimed to have a twin turbo 2.8i using turbo technics kit, not sure how accurate that is though.

Have you considered a supercharger instead?

Andy

[M@H]

andyf007 said:

Have you considered a supercharger instead? Andy

Yes, but found many compelling reasons to go Turbo instead from reading posts in the "Engines" section on here... Plus, there is already a Superchrged S, but not a Turbo'd one yet I believe