Normal wedging resumed...
Discussion
To recap: car was running fine till mid-last week. Suddenly smoking, uneven idle, rough running, huge fuel bill. Swapped coolant temp sensor, ECU, plugs; quick compression check. Drove to BBWF on huge amounts of fuel and bad mood.
Tried to solve it at the 'Fest but sometimes it appeared to run more or less OK, other times rough as the proverbial badger's posterior.
Dove back to Leicester with reasonable throttle response, abandoned car for 24 hours, started up and it ran like a one-legged Fell-runner. On acid. I didn't suppose that the dogshit on the bonnet was causing the problem, but it didn't help my mood. The thing is, I walked for 50 yards in every direcion and I couldn't find any dogshit, so someone was obviously pretty determined... but I digress.
On the way back up the M1 (watching the fuel gauge more than the speedo), I pulled off (ooer) into Woodall services. Filled up, started up and it sounded like the Asian gent from the corner shop (bud-bud-bud-bud). So amidst swarms of gyppos I popped the lid and disconnected a couple of injectors, then wound the fuel pressure down, but it was more or less the same. Then I decided to pull the plug leads off, one at a time, and each time it ran worse, so it was definitely firing on all 8. I carried on. Somewhere up the A1, whilst ovetaking a convoy of gyppos (it looked like they were ALL on the move last night!) I realised that I was driving through a pall of smoke, and then bits of tyre started bouncing off the front air dam... that I'd just resprayed
. Then a pullover landed on the windscreen! What the...?! It turned out that the offside tyre on a caravan had burst, the debris ripped the wheelarch out and there were clothes , cushions and christ knows what else tumbling out. The 40-tonner that was behind him was standing the truck on its nose as the pikey (or perhaps itinerant labourer is a more PC term 
) weaved about the place, trying to get off the road. I legged it before stolen quad bikes and baskets of gypsy's curses started raining on me.
Got back, washed the dogshit off and pushed the car ito the garage.
Today I nipped down to Lan... er, to a specialist parts supplier and obtained a new coolant temp sensor. I already had a spare; I'd replaced the one that was on the car shortly after I got it, just in case, but it made no difference to the symptoms I had at the time. Remember that I tried swapping them in Leics on Saturday morning, and even Mark Adams thought it unlikely that they'd both be faulty in the same way.
So I got one just in case.
Tonight I rolled the 390 out and decided to go back to basics.
Pulled the rocker covers off and checked the valve gear by rotating the crank with a socket: all OK.
Pulled out the plugs, they all look the same (a bit lean, if anything).
Compression test: left bank all 12.7 Bar, no.'s 4,6,8 all 13 bar and no.2 14 Bar, for some odd reason (maybe the tappets pumped up during the test and affected the results?)... anyway not significant IMHO.
Checked that the cam and ignition timings were right (ie timing chain not slipped, cam drive not sheared, dizzy OK - although unlikely as it had correct coolant temp. and wasn't backfiring etc. as you might expect it to) by turning the crank and observing no.1 valves, and position of rotor arm as the piston came up - all OK.
Linked out the fuel pump and reset the fuel pressure to 2.9 Bar. Sucking on the FPR vacuum pipe would bring this down to 2 Bar, FPR doesn't seem to tbe leaking.
Refitted the original (Rover) airflow meter in place of the Jag unit.
Checked the auxiliary air valve.
Reassembled in reverse order and fired her up.
Ran like a bag of spanners.
So I fitted the new coolant temperature sensor.
And started up.
And it was perfect.
So I adjusted the idle speed (cos it was through the roof) and let it warm up. Then I switched off and refitted the temp sensor that was on the car when the problem started. The symtoms came back.
So I tried the 'spare' temp sensor and still it was wrong. Put the new one back in and - hallelujah.
So had I not kept the spare, I'd have been out and bought a new one last week, saved about £40 in petrol and done something other than curse cars for three days.
However: another Rover EFI lesson learned: never trust ANY of it
I've just been out for a thirty-mile blast (in the rain
) and the fuel gauge has hardly budged. I was spinning the wheels in third at one point and chickened out of trying to get 6000 rpm up in 4th... 
Y'know what I reckon? I think the 390 spat its dummy out because of the amount of my attention the Esprit has been getting...
Ian
Tried to solve it at the 'Fest but sometimes it appeared to run more or less OK, other times rough as the proverbial badger's posterior.
Dove back to Leicester with reasonable throttle response, abandoned car for 24 hours, started up and it ran like a one-legged Fell-runner. On acid. I didn't suppose that the dogshit on the bonnet was causing the problem, but it didn't help my mood. The thing is, I walked for 50 yards in every direcion and I couldn't find any dogshit, so someone was obviously pretty determined... but I digress.
On the way back up the M1 (watching the fuel gauge more than the speedo), I pulled off (ooer) into Woodall services. Filled up, started up and it sounded like the Asian gent from the corner shop (bud-bud-bud-bud). So amidst swarms of gyppos I popped the lid and disconnected a couple of injectors, then wound the fuel pressure down, but it was more or less the same. Then I decided to pull the plug leads off, one at a time, and each time it ran worse, so it was definitely firing on all 8. I carried on. Somewhere up the A1, whilst ovetaking a convoy of gyppos (it looked like they were ALL on the move last night!) I realised that I was driving through a pall of smoke, and then bits of tyre started bouncing off the front air dam... that I'd just resprayed
. Then a pullover landed on the windscreen! What the...?! It turned out that the offside tyre on a caravan had burst, the debris ripped the wheelarch out and there were clothes , cushions and christ knows what else tumbling out. The 40-tonner that was behind him was standing the truck on its nose as the pikey (or perhaps itinerant labourer is a more PC term ) weaved about the place, trying to get off the road. I legged it before stolen quad bikes and baskets of gypsy's curses started raining on me. Got back, washed the dogshit off and pushed the car ito the garage.
Today I nipped down to Lan... er, to a specialist parts supplier
and obtained a new coolant temp sensor. I already had a spare; I'd replaced the one that was on the car shortly after I got it, just in case, but it made no difference to the symptoms I had at the time. Remember that I tried swapping them in Leics on Saturday morning, and even Mark Adams thought it unlikely that they'd both be faulty in the same way. So I got one just in case.
Tonight I rolled the 390 out and decided to go back to basics.
Pulled the rocker covers off and checked the valve gear by rotating the crank with a socket: all OK.
Pulled out the plugs, they all look the same (a bit lean, if anything).
Compression test: left bank all 12.7 Bar, no.'s 4,6,8 all 13 bar and no.2 14 Bar, for some odd reason (maybe the tappets pumped up during the test and affected the results?)... anyway not significant IMHO.
Checked that the cam and ignition timings were right (ie timing chain not slipped, cam drive not sheared, dizzy OK - although unlikely as it had correct coolant temp. and wasn't backfiring etc. as you might expect it to) by turning the crank and observing no.1 valves, and position of rotor arm as the piston came up - all OK.
Linked out the fuel pump and reset the fuel pressure to 2.9 Bar. Sucking on the FPR vacuum pipe would bring this down to 2 Bar, FPR doesn't seem to tbe leaking.
Refitted the original (Rover) airflow meter in place of the Jag unit.
Checked the auxiliary air valve.
Reassembled in reverse order and fired her up.
Ran like a bag of spanners.
So I fitted the new coolant temperature sensor.
And started up.
And it was perfect.
So I adjusted the idle speed (cos it was through the roof) and let it warm up. Then I switched off and refitted the temp sensor that was on the car when the problem started. The symtoms came back.
So I tried the 'spare' temp sensor and still it was wrong. Put the new one back in and - hallelujah.
So had I not kept the spare, I'd have been out and bought a new one last week, saved about £40 in petrol and done something other than curse cars for three days.
However: another Rover EFI lesson learned: never trust ANY of it
I've just been out for a thirty-mile blast (in the rain
) and the fuel gauge has hardly budged. I was spinning the wheels in third at one point and chickened out of trying to get 6000 rpm up in 4th... Y'know what I reckon? I think the 390 spat its dummy out because of the amount of my attention the Esprit has been getting... Ian
While we're on the subject:
Took my 280i next door to my neighbour, who just happens to have his own Crypton tuning machine.
My car didn't feel like it was firing on all six.
Well, it wasn't.
Turns out # 4 was off, simply cured by taking out the offending plug and giving it a good clean.
All other ignition components checked out fine.
Saved a lot of fiddling about and headscratching.
My neighbour also informed me that the engine seemed to be in excellent order. (He's a retired Ford main dealer.)
Hmm, the difference is amazing !
Took my 280i next door to my neighbour, who just happens to have his own Crypton tuning machine.
My car didn't feel like it was firing on all six.
Well, it wasn't.
Turns out # 4 was off, simply cured by taking out the offending plug and giving it a good clean.
All other ignition components checked out fine.
Saved a lot of fiddling about and headscratching.
My neighbour also informed me that the engine seemed to be in excellent order. (He's a retired Ford main dealer.)
Hmm, the difference is amazing !
Have you tried looking at the injector and engine earth looms? As it sounds like you might have an intermittant short which is forcing an or one bank of injectors fully on. The ECU earth goes directly to the back of the block (just below passenger side cylinder head) and this is then wired in turn to ground all the injectors and the coolant temp sensor.......
Best of luck with it
Matt
Best of luck with it
Matt
350matt said:
Have you tried looking at the injector and engine earth looms? As it sounds like you might have an intermittant short which is forcing an or one bank of injectors fully on. The ECU earth goes directly to the back of the block (just below passenger side cylinder head) and this is then wired in turn to ground all the injectors and the coolant temp sensor.......
Best of luck with it
Matt
Yep, did that. I built the wiring loom, too
Now I may be a little premature here, but I think that I've found a definite suspect in the ECU (soldering, of course).
Firstly, it occurred to me that the reason swapping the temp sensors around may have made it appear they were faulty is that I didn't give them long enough to get up to temperature. So the ECU thinks the coolant is colder than it is and overfuels. This wouldn't be a bad thing if the aux. air valve was open, but of course with the engine warm it would be closed - which I guess rules the AAV out anyway as a contributory factor!
Tonight I pulled the ECU out and had a good look at the PCBs under a magnifier. Saw nothing really wrong, so I plugged it back in. Started the car (remember that the last time it ran it was showing the fault symptoms) and it was fine. Tried flexing the main PCB and suddenly the engine cut out. It was as if it had been switched off, no rough running, didn't slow down, just stopped. It did the same thing the other day.
Then it wouldn't restart. So I pulled the ECU and resoldered an area of the PCB around where I'd been flexing it. Plugged it back in, restarted no problem. Warmed her up, then tried swapping the 'old' temp sensors back: with a couple of minutes to warm up it would start with either of them fitted. Tried clouting the ECU PCB with a rubber screwdriver handle, but it wouldn't cut out.
Reinstalled the new sensor to be on the safe side; got the CO meter out. It was around 3.7%, so I adjusted the fuel pressure and idle air bypass to give about 2.7% CO, 2.5 bar fuel with engine idling at 800 rpm.
Switched off, left it. Started OK. Went out for a hoon. Ran superbly. Went to Tescos, came out, started OK.
I'm off for some tea then I'll probably try it again.
Ian
Right, I think I can fairly safely stick my neck out and say that it's fixed. En route to the BNG today, I took a circuitous route over the N. Yorks moors, taking in a fine selection of single-track, rough-as-a-Darlington-tart roads. Given the fact that my fillings are somewhere between Gt. Broughton and Westerdale, the 390 now has more holes than a Government report in its silencer and for the first 20 minutes at Duncombe I was seeing two of everything, however the car never missed a beat, so any intermittency (is that a word?) that may have been present 'midst the Blue Peter-esque soldering on the ECU is now banished.
I managed to keep up with TVRBob on the way back (though he claims he wasn't trying: wrong sort of horsesh!t on the road or some such excuse ) although I still think his Chimaera had the accelerative edge.
Tonight I replaced the Jaguar airflow meter that I'd taken off when trying to fettle the car. Started first turn, a slight tweak of the air bypass to get the CO UP (Mark Adams did say he thought it should run weak) to 2% as a starting point, plus a bit more fuel pressure, and tomorrow I'll pop to Tescos and see what improvement, if any, has been wrought.
I wonder if Ebay do rolling roads... 
So yes: finally, normal wedging resumed...
Ian
I managed to keep up with TVRBob on the way back (though he claims he wasn't trying: wrong sort of horsesh!t on the road or some such excuse
) although I still think his Chimaera had the accelerative edge. Tonight I replaced the Jaguar airflow meter that I'd taken off when trying to fettle the car. Started first turn, a slight tweak of the air bypass to get the CO UP (Mark Adams did say he thought it should run weak) to 2% as a starting point, plus a bit more fuel pressure, and tomorrow I'll pop to Tescos
and see what improvement, if any, has been wrought. I wonder if Ebay do rolling roads... So yes: finally, normal wedging resumed...
Ian
As an update to this; I swapped the Jag airflow meter back and spent a bit of time adjusting settings again, and I've actually got it running the best it ever has with the Jag AFM! Prior to the ECU problem, there were more flat spots than Lincolnshire.
Now it's almost (but not quite) as smooth a response as with the standard AFM - though I can't decide whether the car is actually any quicker on the ground...
Do Ebay do rolling roads..?
Ian
Now it's almost (but not quite) as smooth a response as with the standard AFM - though I can't decide whether the car is actually any quicker on the ground...
Do Ebay do rolling roads..?
Ian
Well there is this gizmo
www.gtechpro.com/
It does work reasonably well just don't expect +/- 3Bhp repeatability good fun whilst using as well
Matt
www.gtechpro.com/
It does work reasonably well just don't expect +/- 3Bhp repeatability good fun whilst using as well
Matt
grahamw48 said:
Haven't noticed any improvements at Tesco, but glad your car is sorted
Do you ever sleep ?
Off to Halfords for some plugs now - hoping for an extra 50 horses, so I can keep up with you lot
Perhaps I should explain... I am prone to telling 'er indoors that I am just off 'round the block' to test some modification or repair, and not coming back for an hour
Now I say I'm off to Tescos for some biscuits or whatever...
I do sleep; usually between about 0300 and 0900. Luckily I have an understanding boss
Did you get the 50 horses?
Ian
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