Discussion
I recently ordered a new clutch master cylinder by phone from a very well known non-franchised TVR specialist. Having received the part, I realised that it was not the same as my original. Mine has a threaded-end actuating rod, whereas the supplied part had a non-threaded rod with an integral clevis. I telephoned the supplier, who suggested that I should swap my rod onto the new body, which I declined to do, as I wanted the correct part which I had paid for. We agreed that I would return the part for a refund, which I did. In the meantime, I ordered a new master cylinder from Tower View (very helpful, as usual) which arrived a couple of days later and was the correct part, matching my original. It was also £47 plus vat, rather than the £61.50 plus vat which I had been charged for the wrong part. Sorted, or so I thought. Imagine my surprise when a few days later, supplier number 1 (who I now regard as devilishly greedy) returned the part which I had already returned to them, claiming that it was not their stock part, and suggesting that I was attempting to return something which they had not supplied!!!!!!! Needless to say, I returned their part to them with a strongly worded letter demanding refund. So far, 10 days later, none has been forthcoming.
I can only hope that whoever has bought the factory stock of Wedge spares, its not this outfit. Any news on this?
I can only hope that whoever has bought the factory stock of Wedge spares, its not this outfit. Any news on this?
Yeah, I've had that happen with clutch cylinders. It was the work of a few moments to alter the pushrod.
Given the fact that so many parts are now 'new old stock', one could consider oneself fortunate to find 'almost-correct' parts - most cast components are made as a one-off production run; when they're gone, they're gone, as the naff ad slogan has it.
Agreed that the supplier is being a little 'off' in their service.
Ian
Given the fact that so many parts are now 'new old stock', one could consider oneself fortunate to find 'almost-correct' parts - most cast components are made as a one-off production run; when they're gone, they're gone, as the naff ad slogan has it.
Agreed that the supplier is being a little 'off' in their service.
Ian
It gets even worse. On late wedge's ( as on Griffith/Chimaera's) TVR altered the bore thread from the standard 3/8 to 7/16 inch. So if you buy a standard Girling cilinder with all the matching partnumbers it won't fit or you have to alter the union on the pipe. So by this way they made it a TVR special. I don't know when the altered it but whene I recently bought one for a 89 wedge 350 it was different. If you look closely on the outside of the master cilinder you can actually see the marks where TVR have put it in a vice.
greetings from Holland
Hans.
greetings from Holland
Hans.
hansdaal said:
It gets even worse. On late wedge's ( as on Griffith/Chimaera's) TVR altered the bore thread from the standard 3/8 to 7/16 inch. So if you buy a standard Girling cilinder with all the matching partnumbers it won't fit or you have to alter the union on the pipe. So by this way they made it a TVR special. I don't know when the altered it but whene I recently bought one for a 89 wedge 350 it was different. If you look closely on the outside of the master cilinder you can actually see the marks where TVR have put it in a vice.
greetings from Holland
Hans.
To be honest and fair, it was not TVR as this problem is quite common across the range and with other manufacturers and is due partly by a changeover to metric fittings as Girling rationalised their range. BTW 10mm and 7/16in are very close fittings and it is easy to get the wrong ones....
BTW the matching part numbers are often only for the cylinder and do not describe the fittings or actuation rod. I have several girling brake master cylinders with the same marking with different reservoirs, pipe fittings and actuation rods. Definitely not interchangeable but with the same part number on the cylinder casting.
Also bear in mind that Wedge parts varied tremendously - 7 different brake master cylinders have been used - and it is extremely common to get a stock part and find it is different from the one fitted to your car. Doesn't excuse the attitude but I am never surprised these days at all to find a slightly different part has been used...
Check and double check is the watch word.
Steve
>> Edited by shpub on Friday 26th November 13:10
Think you're possibly making a mountain out of a molehill here paul .. yup can fully understand the bit about wanting your money back, but that aside all of the recent master cyls I've seen have had the integral clevis rods on, just swap it over from your old cylinder as mentioned earlier .. it's what would happen if you took your car in for the work to be done anyway. i'm sure if you're confident enough to change the whole unit you could swap the rods over beforehand?
Good of course that tower view managed to get you one to match your existing unit, but you run an old car, things *will* become obsolete .. you'll be faced with this situation more and more as time goes on, best learn to deal with it.
Good of course that tower view managed to get you one to match your existing unit, but you run an old car, things *will* become obsolete .. you'll be faced with this situation more and more as time goes on, best learn to deal with it.
joospeed said:
Think you're possibly making a mountain out of a molehill here paul .. yup can fully understand the bit about wanting your money back, but that aside all of the recent master cyls I've seen have had the integral clevis rods on, just swap it over from your old cylinder as mentioned earlier .. it's what would happen if you took your car in for the work to be done anyway. i'm sure if you're confident enough to change the whole unit you could swap the rods over beforehand?
Good of course that tower view managed to get you one to match your existing unit, but you run an old car, things *will* become obsolete .. you'll be faced with this situation more and more as time goes on, best learn to deal with it.
Bad service should NEVER be tolerated.
They are hoping you'll go away with your tail between your legs.
grahamw48 said:
joospeed said:
Think you're possibly making a mountain out of a molehill here paul .. yup can fully understand the bit about wanting your money back, but that aside all of the recent master cyls I've seen have had the integral clevis rods on, just swap it over from your old cylinder as mentioned earlier .. it's what would happen if you took your car in for the work to be done anyway. i'm sure if you're confident enough to change the whole unit you could swap the rods over beforehand? Good of course that tower view managed to get you one to match your existing unit, but you run an old car, things *will* become obsolete .. you'll be faced with this situation more and more as time goes on, best learn to deal with it.
Bad service should NEVER be tolerated. They are hoping you'll go away with your tail between your legs.
Don't think Joos or anyone else is suggesting bad service should not be tolerated, just that the issue with the parts supplied is one that we should learn to expect given how they can and have changed..
>> Edited by seamus on Friday 26th November 15:24
tallbloke said:
BTW 10mm and 7/16in are very close fittings and it is easy to get the wrong ones....
3/8"UNF = 0.375" 24 TPI
1/8"BSP = 0.383" 28 TPI
10mm x 1= 0.394" 25 TPI (1mm pitch)
7/16"UNF= 0.438" 20 TPI
Just showing how easy it is to get the wrongs ones
Arggggggg...
seamus said:
joospeed said:
Think you're possibly making a mountain out of a molehill here paul .. yup can fully understand the bit about wanting your money back, but that aside all of the recent master cyls I've seen have had the integral clevis rods on, just swap it over from your old cylinder as mentioned earlier .. it's what would happen if you took your car in for the work to be done anyway. i'm sure if you're confident enough to change the whole unit you could swap the rods over beforehand? Good of course that tower view managed to get you one to match your existing unit, but you run an old car, things *will* become obsolete .. you'll be faced with this situation more and more as time goes on, best learn to deal with it.
Bad service should NEVER be tolerated. They are hoping you'll go away with your tail between your legs.
Don't think Joos or anyone else is suggesting bad service should not be tolerated, just that the issue with the parts supplied is one that we should learn to expect given how they can and have changed..
>> Edited by seamus on Friday 26th November 15:24
indeed
Its difficult to compare prices from one specialist to another, one might have a good stock bought in at a good price, one might order the part for you as a one off and pay over the odds.
I realise that your complaint isn't just price related but the extra £10-15 might not be due to greed.
I occasionally "get in" parts for customers put on a sensible mark up and just hope the prices compare favourably with others.
Don't want to know who the dealer is but hope you get it sorted.
Tim
I realise that your complaint isn't just price related but the extra £10-15 might not be due to greed.
I occasionally "get in" parts for customers put on a sensible mark up and just hope the prices compare favourably with others.
Don't want to know who the dealer is but hope you get it sorted.
Tim
joospeed said:
Think you're possibly making a mountain out of a molehill here paul .. yup can fully understand the bit about wanting your money back, but that aside all of the recent master cyls I've seen have had the integral clevis rods on, just swap it over from your old cylinder as mentioned earlier .. it's what would happen if you took your car in for the work to be done anyway. i'm sure if you're confident enough to change the whole unit you could swap the rods over beforehand?
Good of course that tower view managed to get you one to match your existing unit, but you run an old car, things *will* become obsolete .. you'll be faced with this situation more and more as time goes on, best learn to deal with it.
Of course, I could easily have swapped the rods, but
A) I paid for new parts
B) The rods do have a tendency to bend over time because of the angle that they are mounted in the car.
I think they are the ones being unreasonable (a very charitable description - I called them much worse) at attempting such a scam.
For my two d's worth, I'd only say that I agree with Paul that it seems well offside to offer a refund and then deny ownership of the goods, and I also agree that these thing happen because of differences between cutomer expectation and suppliers assumptions about the allowances to be made in slight variations in the spec of parts. Unless of course Paul specified the threaded rod type, in which case the supplier should have checked inside the packaging anyway.
It's not a scam, but neither is it curteous to withdraw the agreement to refund on return after the goods have been posted.
I hope Paul gets his money returned, and that the tale has a happy ending.
It's not a scam, but neither is it curteous to withdraw the agreement to refund on return after the goods have been posted.
I hope Paul gets his money returned, and that the tale has a happy ending.
I'll accept that 'original' parts are not as easy to locate for older TVRs (or any older vehicle for that matter), but the point of my rant was that it seems to happen far too often now, that customers are expected to put up with poor service, and not just in the motor trade.
Standards will not improve if we are prepared to walk away without complaint.
A couple of weeks ago my other car was repaired at a main dealer, after I'd claimed against another driver.
A dent costing over £1200 to repair, plus 8 days car hire.
I am always prepared for hassle where main dealers are involved.
Anyway, I telephone to enquire when my vehicle will be ready.
I'm informed that my brake lights weren't working, and repair was necessary.
I pointed out that they WERE working perfectly before, and kindly fix them free, or I'd be billing THEM !
I get a sheepish call telling me that they had found a fuse blown under the bonnet. ( Presumably they crossed a few wires when replacing the rear quarter panel).
I then go to pick up my car, and straightaway notice it in the car park, with very little air in a couple of the tyres.
The bodyshop man asks me to sign for the car (unseen !)
I tell him I'd prefer to have a look at the car first,
if he doesn't mind, which gets me a dirty look.
I have a good look at my car, and say I'll sign his form once they've made it roadworthy by putting some air in the almost flat tyres.
This morning I received a cheque from the car hire company, returning my deposit.
It was made out to a person with the initials 'ZZZ'.
Totally useless.
More time and money is wasted in this country by poorly trained baffoons with little common sense, and even less idea of what 'service' means.
If I didn't give excellent service in my self-employed occupation every day, I would starve.
That's why my threshold of tolerance is low.
Standards will not improve if we are prepared to walk away without complaint.
A couple of weeks ago my other car was repaired at a main dealer, after I'd claimed against another driver.
A dent costing over £1200 to repair, plus 8 days car hire.
I am always prepared for hassle where main dealers are involved.
Anyway, I telephone to enquire when my vehicle will be ready.
I'm informed that my brake lights weren't working, and repair was necessary.
I pointed out that they WERE working perfectly before, and kindly fix them free, or I'd be billing THEM !
I get a sheepish call telling me that they had found a fuse blown under the bonnet. ( Presumably they crossed a few wires when replacing the rear quarter panel).
I then go to pick up my car, and straightaway notice it in the car park, with very little air in a couple of the tyres.
The bodyshop man asks me to sign for the car (unseen !)
I tell him I'd prefer to have a look at the car first,
if he doesn't mind, which gets me a dirty look.
I have a good look at my car, and say I'll sign his form once they've made it roadworthy by putting some air in the almost flat tyres.
This morning I received a cheque from the car hire company, returning my deposit.
It was made out to a person with the initials 'ZZZ'.
Totally useless.
More time and money is wasted in this country by poorly trained baffoons with little common sense, and even less idea of what 'service' means.
If I didn't give excellent service in my self-employed occupation every day, I would starve.
That's why my threshold of tolerance is low.
County court summons, have your day
I have in the past and rather enjoyed it
www.diylaw.info
>> Edited by cuneus on Friday 26th November 23:43
I have in the past and rather enjoyed it
www.diylaw.info
>> Edited by cuneus on Friday 26th November 23:43
paul gotts said:
Of course, I could easily have swapped the rods, but
A) I paid for new parts
B) The rods do have a tendency to bend over time because of the angle that they are mounted in the car.
I think they are the ones being unreasonable (a very charitable description - I called them much worse) at attempting such a scam.
A)Did the scope of supply include 'with pushrod' or did it say 'clutch master cylinder'? If pushrod not specified, presumably you can't actually expect one
B)Never seen this on a Wedge. The rod can swivel on the clevis end and isn't attached to the piston, it's merely held captive by the retaining circlip, so don't see how it could bend. I have however seen the bore worn oval by the odd angle of attack that the pushrod makes.
Last time I wanted a m/cyl, I approached Lucas-Girling directly. They told me that the cyl was obsolete and an equivalent would be £100. Naively I paid up, and then found I could have had one direct from TVR for half that price. Did I complain? No. Insufficient research, but lesson learned.
I've since bought a couple of spares via Ebay, the bastards at L-G won't get my business again.
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