Camshaft choice for a 390SE
Discussion
My father's '87 390SE need a new camshaft this winter.
Steve Heath recommended a Crane hybrid 218 camshaft, how is in comparison to the H218 from Kent cams? Are there other cams that might suit the 390SE engine?
How do the flapper and the original fuelmap react to one of these camshafts?
Any recommendation on where we can buy the camshaft and ancillaries like lifter, rockers in the greater London area? My father is coming over to London in the next couple of weeks for meeting so it would be nice to find a place where they have the parts in store.
I’m tempted to convert from Lucas 4CU ECU to a Megasquirt AVR or UMS ECU for better control over the fuel and most important the ignition. We are not as fortunate like you Brits to have Mark Adams nearby to setup the engine every now and then.
Good bye from a snow covered Oslo, Norway.
Stein Ove P.
Mech. Eng with an MSc degree in “Motorsport Engineer and Management” from Cranfield Uni.
I’m looking a job in a motorsport or automotive design/development team.
>>> Edited by mk1classic on Tuesday 6th January 02:55
Steve Heath recommended a Crane hybrid 218 camshaft, how is in comparison to the H218 from Kent cams? Are there other cams that might suit the 390SE engine?
How do the flapper and the original fuelmap react to one of these camshafts?
Any recommendation on where we can buy the camshaft and ancillaries like lifter, rockers in the greater London area? My father is coming over to London in the next couple of weeks for meeting so it would be nice to find a place where they have the parts in store.
I’m tempted to convert from Lucas 4CU ECU to a Megasquirt AVR or UMS ECU for better control over the fuel and most important the ignition. We are not as fortunate like you Brits to have Mark Adams nearby to setup the engine every now and then.
Good bye from a snow covered Oslo, Norway.
Stein Ove P.
Mech. Eng with an MSc degree in “Motorsport Engineer and Management” from Cranfield Uni.
I’m looking a job in a motorsport or automotive design/development team.
>>> Edited by mk1classic on Tuesday 6th January 02:55
Just been through the same choice process for the new cam on my 91 400se (hotwire injection).
In the end, after staring for hours at LOTS of computer graphs I picked a V8 Developments MC1 Cam, which is a 218 Hybrid.
I haven't got the car back yet, so I cannot tell you what it feels like on the road, but the old cam (it was marked up as a 214) had a much softer profile than the MC1, so I'm sure response will be very different. I also decked the block to get a genuine (measured!) 10.5:1 comp ratio, not to mention decent squish, plus I sourced some gapless rings from the USA to eliminate blow by and improve vacuum. Can't wait to get her back!!!
Can't advise on the flapper set up though.
Cheers
Andy 400se
>> Edited by andymadmak on Tuesday 6th January 10:12
In the end, after staring for hours at LOTS of computer graphs I picked a V8 Developments MC1 Cam, which is a 218 Hybrid.
I haven't got the car back yet, so I cannot tell you what it feels like on the road, but the old cam (it was marked up as a 214) had a much softer profile than the MC1, so I'm sure response will be very different. I also decked the block to get a genuine (measured!) 10.5:1 comp ratio, not to mention decent squish, plus I sourced some gapless rings from the USA to eliminate blow by and improve vacuum. Can't wait to get her back!!!
Can't advise on the flapper set up though.
Cheers
Andy 400se
>> Edited by andymadmak on Tuesday 6th January 10:12
You'll find that most of the hydraulic grinds are very similar in terms of valve duration etc but the V8 developments cam is a popular choice. For the rest of the engine pieces I'd reccommend Real Steel in Middlesex 01895-440505. Also as the 390's had an aftermarket cam in any case you will probably find the car will run OK with your current ECU - bear in mind that most TVRs benefit from a re-map so its not the height of accuracy to start with.
As for ECU's the megasquirt is the DIY jobby isn't it? I've not heard of anyone using this in this country as yet mainly because there are a few companies selling aftermarket ECU's pretty cheaply - Emerald 01953-889-110 (I run one of these on my 350, can't be beat for the money in my humble opinion) or DTA 01274-667-960 more expensive but still good.
Definitly worth binning the old washing machine Lucas stuff but not a job for the faint-hearted.
Matt
As for ECU's the megasquirt is the DIY jobby isn't it? I've not heard of anyone using this in this country as yet mainly because there are a few companies selling aftermarket ECU's pretty cheaply - Emerald 01953-889-110 (I run one of these on my 350, can't be beat for the money in my humble opinion) or DTA 01274-667-960 more expensive but still good.
Definitly worth binning the old washing machine Lucas stuff but not a job for the faint-hearted.
Matt
My first Cam in the 400se was in the old engine. it was one of Peninsula's specials ... not sure exactly what it was but power delivery was awsome .. it was mild below 4000rpm, but then it all went mad ... I remember getting wheelspin changing from 3rd into 4th !.
Since then the can has had a new engine and cam .. not having run it in fully yet, im still waiting to see how things transgress.
218 hybrids are supposed to be good though!
Since then the can has had a new engine and cam .. not having run it in fully yet, im still waiting to see how things transgress.
218 hybrids are supposed to be good though!
Hi again.
Spring is in the air and the car is still missing a new cam.
After doing a little reading up on the 390SE history and engines. It looks like the engine in my fathers 390SE is one of the 30 engines tuned by NCK & Andi Rouse. According to Steve H's wedge book all the 390SE had mechanical camshafts. From what I find on the internet it looks like the MC1 and the 218hybrids are designed as hydraulic lifter cams or am I wrong?
Spring is in the air and the car is still missing a new cam.
After doing a little reading up on the 390SE history and engines. It looks like the engine in my fathers 390SE is one of the 30 engines tuned by NCK & Andi Rouse. According to Steve H's wedge book all the 390SE had mechanical camshafts. From what I find on the internet it looks like the MC1 and the 218hybrids are designed as hydraulic lifter cams or am I wrong?
All the NCK motors I have tested have produced very good power, and apparently have quite hot cams as standard.
On an NCK motor, the airflow meter should be stamped with the engine number. They were all set up to match their respective engines.
It is becoming pretty dreary listening to people slagging off the Lucas 4CU flapper injection system. I have now dyno'd over 2,500 engines and vehicles over 15 years, and done many back-to-back tests to give comparative data. I have also seen plenty of people lose power by replacing it with a "better" system. More accurately newer does not automatically mean better.
Let's get this straight once and for all. The flapper system works incredibly well, gives extrememly accurate fuelling, is reliable when properly sorted, and is very easy to set up and maintain. It is does not do well with turbos, or extreme altitude changes.
The only improvement that is really worthwhile is to use the larger Jaguar airflow meter. These engines actually like a restriction in the inlet, and binning the airflow meter is a good way to bin 10-15 lb/ft of torque for no power gain.
However it is very wothwhile to supplement it with mapped ignition, and this is usually where the bulk of any gains occur when replacing it.
It really is very easy to set up the flap system with only a voltmeter, a fuel pressure gauge, and a rolling road (or good hill in case of emergency). If you want to know how, just ask here.
On an NCK motor, the airflow meter should be stamped with the engine number. They were all set up to match their respective engines.
It is becoming pretty dreary listening to people slagging off the Lucas 4CU flapper injection system. I have now dyno'd over 2,500 engines and vehicles over 15 years, and done many back-to-back tests to give comparative data. I have also seen plenty of people lose power by replacing it with a "better" system. More accurately newer does not automatically mean better.
Let's get this straight once and for all. The flapper system works incredibly well, gives extrememly accurate fuelling, is reliable when properly sorted, and is very easy to set up and maintain. It is does not do well with turbos, or extreme altitude changes.
The only improvement that is really worthwhile is to use the larger Jaguar airflow meter. These engines actually like a restriction in the inlet, and binning the airflow meter is a good way to bin 10-15 lb/ft of torque for no power gain.
However it is very wothwhile to supplement it with mapped ignition, and this is usually where the bulk of any gains occur when replacing it.
It really is very easy to set up the flap system with only a voltmeter, a fuel pressure gauge, and a rolling road (or good hill in case of emergency). If you want to know how, just ask here.
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