Garage designs
Discussion
I'm finally getting around to designing the super garage.
It's going to have all the frills. Insulated cavity walls, double-glazing, epoxy floor etc. etc.
One feature is to be an RSJ mounted in the roof oriented transversely so that a winch can be hung off of a trolley on said RSJ. The idea being that this can be used for engine/gearbox removal. Both x and y movement can be achieved by traversing the trolley across the RSJ (X) and rolling the car on its wheels (Y).
So I need some information and advice from those who have done the engine out thing and have the scars to prove it!
Q1 Does this sound like it will work?
One possible fly in the ointment could be if the front of the car needs raising on ramps / axle stands to get the angles right and this would preclude the Y movement of rolling the car back. To avoid the need to lift the front of the car I was thinking of using a load levelling bar (Machine Mart do them). It’s a lifting beam where the central eye can be moved by turning a handle on the end so if you need to drop the gearbox end by say 1mm to clear something then that’s half a turn.
I need to decide how far from the end wall I should have the RSJ. For this I need to know approximately where the centre of gravity is of the engine on its own and with the box attached.
Q2 My crude guess of where the CofG is.
A) In the centre of the plenum chamber for the engine on its own, and B)at the mating face between the engine and bell housing when the box is attached. Am I close?
If I have the RSJ too near the back wall then I can't lift the engine level and if I have it too far away then when the car is backed out to clear the engine then it will exit the garage and disappear down the 1:3 driveway!!! The garage will be long enough 6m or so but I just want to make life easy!
Other thoughts on the garage project have been for a service pit or a 4-post ramp. I am leaning towards the ramp idea on the grounds of ergonomics and safety but I'm not sure I'll be able to fit it in.
Leo
It's going to have all the frills. Insulated cavity walls, double-glazing, epoxy floor etc. etc.
One feature is to be an RSJ mounted in the roof oriented transversely so that a winch can be hung off of a trolley on said RSJ. The idea being that this can be used for engine/gearbox removal. Both x and y movement can be achieved by traversing the trolley across the RSJ (X) and rolling the car on its wheels (Y).
So I need some information and advice from those who have done the engine out thing and have the scars to prove it!
Q1 Does this sound like it will work?
One possible fly in the ointment could be if the front of the car needs raising on ramps / axle stands to get the angles right and this would preclude the Y movement of rolling the car back. To avoid the need to lift the front of the car I was thinking of using a load levelling bar (Machine Mart do them). It’s a lifting beam where the central eye can be moved by turning a handle on the end so if you need to drop the gearbox end by say 1mm to clear something then that’s half a turn.
I need to decide how far from the end wall I should have the RSJ. For this I need to know approximately where the centre of gravity is of the engine on its own and with the box attached.
Q2 My crude guess of where the CofG is.
A) In the centre of the plenum chamber for the engine on its own, and B)at the mating face between the engine and bell housing when the box is attached. Am I close?
If I have the RSJ too near the back wall then I can't lift the engine level and if I have it too far away then when the car is backed out to clear the engine then it will exit the garage and disappear down the 1:3 driveway!!! The garage will be long enough 6m or so but I just want to make life easy!
Other thoughts on the garage project have been for a service pit or a 4-post ramp. I am leaning towards the ramp idea on the grounds of ergonomics and safety but I'm not sure I'll be able to fit it in.
Leo
shpub said:Thanks for the quick response, not bad for a free service!
Use an engine crane as the engine needs to be moved forward and back to get it out. A simple RSJ based lift will support the engine but it is not ideal in termsof maneovrebility to get the engine/gearbox out.
I was hoping that my method would give better manoeuvrability over a traditional engine crane, which has, in my admittedly limited experience, issues with under body clearance, reach, transverse movement (none), in line movement (jerky if on a bumpy surface), and lifting height. These can all be worked with but I thought I could do better with a purpous built garage.
I don’t think I explained it well as the car would easily roll forward and back under the hoist and the hoist would be mounted on a trolley on the RSJ allowing smooth left to right movement, which could even be motorised (though well over the top). I've seen similar set-ups with overhead cranes in factories (different scale but same idea) and they seem to work well the only difference here is that one of the axis of movement is provided by pushing the car back.
Another plus point is I won't have to find storage space for a folding crane which is probably offset by not being able to take the RSJ with me if I move
Any ideas on CofG
Thanks for the words of wisdom
gsx600 said:Can you use a 2-post lift on a wedge? I thought it would be difficult/dammaging, what points would you lift on? These were my concerns and that was why I was thinking of a 4-poster. 4-posts are cheaper and easier to find second hand, but if a 2-post works the space saving is worth the added cost.
....I would spend the money (@ £1000?) on a 2 post lift which are quite compact, able to lift a wedge with ease and you can actually get under 90 % of the car.
Much thanks
Leo
leorest said:
Can you use a 2-post lift on a wedge? I thought it would be difficult/dammaging, what points would you lift on? These were my concerns and that was why I was thinking of a 4-poster. 4-posts are cheaper and easier to find second hand, but if a 2-post works the space saving is worth the added cost.
Much thanks
Leo
I use my brother in laws 2 post at his garage and there seems to be enough places on the 400 for safe lifting. Took apart the rear dif / sus in situ on this. Also don't a lot of 4 poster require 2 or 3 phase or 400v to power them ?
>> Edited by gsx600 on Thursday 18th August 12:33
gsx600 said:To my knowledge there's no reason for a voltage/phase difference between two and four post. In any case motors can be rewound and/or inverters used.
I use my brother in laws 2 post at his garage and there seems to be enough places on the 400 for safe lifting. Took apart the rear dif / sus in situ on this. Also don't a lot of 4 poster require 2 or 3 phase or 400v to power them ?
I know of one instance where someone bought a four poster including inverter for less than £500 though that was a while ago.
I have heard some garages are dumping them in favour of the more space saving two post ones.
I am not dead set on the four post it's just I was wary of how to lift on the chassis.
Maybe I need to have a re-think… I'll try having a look at getting it onto a 2-post.
Thanks again
Leo
grahamw48 said:OK so the general consensus of opinion seems to be, I must be off my rocker
Sounds like you're after a mini gantry crane.
Very sophisticated pieces of kit.
I'd just hire an engine crane.
Now if you were a single man, you'd just knock through the front of the house, and put an up and over there.
One high-spec garage
but that's OK 'cause I don’t necessarily disagree, I just want the best house and equipment for my TVR. You wait and see you'll all be queuing up to use it! And for the price of a beer and curry it's all yours. The front of the house started with an up and over funnily enough! It's being converted into a study and utility room but the payoff is... I get my own detached purpous built garage on the plot of land at the side, which is nice.
L
Many of the garage 2/4 posters require far greater height clearance than is normally found in a domestic garage. Most ofbthe ex garage ones are 3 phase and are notoriously difficult to run on phase converters and such are often more expensive than the lift in the first place. That is why 3 phase stuff is often quite cheap compared to the single phase stuff. .
As for the C of G, remember that the engine and gearbox typically come out as a unit. If you can roll thae car back the 4 to 5 feet necessary to get the engine out and clear, you will have space for an engine crane.
Steve
who has a hydraulic scissor lift and an engine crane and metre high axle stands...
As for the C of G, remember that the engine and gearbox typically come out as a unit. If you can roll thae car back the 4 to 5 feet necessary to get the engine out and clear, you will have space for an engine crane.
Steve
who has a hydraulic scissor lift and an engine crane and metre high axle stands...
leorest said:
One feature is to be an RSJ mounted in the roof oriented transversely so that a winch can be hung off of a trolley on said RSJ. The idea being that this can be used for engine/gearbox removal. Both x and y movement can be achieved by traversing the trolley across the RSJ (X) and rolling the car on its wheels (Y).
Why not run the beam front to back, then you would not need to roll the car about, just line it up when you put it in?
FrenchTVR said:
Why not run the beam front to back, then you would not need to roll the car about, just line it up when you put it in?
Good idea two beams width ways to support one beam length ways But a overhead crane has limited uses like for picking out the engine, where a lift would be alot more use for all kinds of under car work
tallbloke said:
Why not run the beam front to back, then you would not need to roll the car about, just line it up when you put it in?
You'd need a very strong beam across the top of the doors to take one end of the RSJ though.
That wouldn't be a problem - steel's very cheap compared to the overall cost of the garage.
dilbert said:
If you're building the garage, and you're going to put in an RSJ for lfting, surely it's not that much more of a challenge to run RSJ's, or even two lenghts of angle, along the length of the garage to get a proper gantry.
That would also work well but I wouldn't bother with any of it. As mentioned above just use a hydraulic crane. I've built my garage two years ago and would recommend: full domestic standard insulated cavity walls, a dozen electric sockets, a properly reinforced concrete slab with insulation below, a conventional pitched roof with storage at each side and double glazed windows. If you do go down the crane beam/gantry route (as I originally intended to) note that the trolley wheel requirements for the flange usually determine beam size.
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