Hot starting - odd!

[york33]

Morning all

Well, you'd think my car should be running perfectly after all the time I've spent on it recently. But no, electric problems again, I'm getting really close to stripping it all out and rewiring the lot!

But for the time being, an odd one with hot-starting.....

It's fine when cold and sometimes when hot. But when the problems appears usually after a run when I try to restart. The ignition switch is obviously working as I can here the fuel pump kick in when in crank position. But not a thing from the starter motor. Not even a clunk as if it was a sticky one, it's quite new so it better not be sticking!

Then after between 2-30mins it suddenly starts working perfectly again. Why is the evil thing doing this, any ideas anyone before I belt it with a sledgehammer?!

cheers
Dave :)

[tomsugden]

My landrover discovery V8 used to do exactly that. I never got to the bottom of the problem, I sold it and bought a wedge

[gsx600]

One possibility could be the wire feeding the starter solonoid is not making a proper connection 100 % of the time, thus you would hear no noise ?
Or possible a loose / bad earting point to the engine

[leorest]

Could it be the starter is getting excessively hot (from the exhaust) and seizing. Next time it happens check if the volts dip when trying to crank, indicating the starter is drawing some current. If this is the case then some heat shield might help.
Leo

[cdt]

There is a similar common problem with the Griffith starting when the engine is warm that is caused by a poor earth connection.

[york33]

Thanks for suggestions.....I gave the wires and starter connectors a prod this morning whilst waiting, no joy. I'll investigate the dodgy earth option tonight. Though I definitely put a new earth strap on the gearbox and I'm 99.3% sure I reattached the one to the block when I put it back together! I'm now starting to doubt myself

The starter didn't seem too warm, but if that's how they behave when hot then I'll try and get some heat reflective cloth on it to see what that does......

cheers
Dave

[leorest]

york33 said:

...The starter didn't seem too warm, but if that's how they behave when hot then I'll try and get some heat reflective cloth on it to see what that does.....

Haven't had any problems with starters so I don't speak from personal experience but I read a thread some time ago that mentioned heat as a problem, might be worth a search for "Starter & heat shield"
Leo

[grahamw48]

I thought the hot starter motor problems were V8 related.

My 280 sometimes doesn't want to play, and in fact can just stop dead (the engine,that is) as you're driving along.

It is a problem with the fuses, and twiddling them restores power.

I'm no auto-electrician, but also I would immediately suspect earthing problems on these cars, being fibreglass. These faults just don't seem to occur on our metal-bodied daily drivers, do they ?

My 390 wouldn't start from hot the other week because of a bad earth connection, battery to engine.

[york33]

Oh I don't know, bl&&dy intermittent problems, had a spirited drive home to warm her up after an incredibly dull day at work. Switched off and of course she restarted perfectly. Checked the eartha and both attached+clean contacts. There are just two earths aren't there? One on the block and one on gearbox? I might run a separate one from starter motor mount just to test.

It does look a good distance from the exhaust on mine, a V6, so not too sure this is the problem.......but it can't hurt to try!

Has been banished to the garage for tomorrow, it wouldn't be so bad if I could just park up at work and come back at 5. I've got to hop out and sign in at gatehouse at my current site, too many chavs around to leave engine on!

CBR tomorrow, at least I'll save money on petrol!

cheers
Dave

[SEvans]

Wouldn't be surprised if it's the starter. I had 3 recon ones until I finally fitted an uprated one from a P100 pickup which seemed to do the trick. This was on the 200 so not sure one from a P100 would fit on yours.

[streaky]

Solenoid sticking? - Streaky

[broadside]

I had the same problem with my old 280I. It would always restart after 10-20 minutes allowing the car to cool down. It also started doing this as the battery was on its way out. Whenever I put a new battery on, I never had any problems with hot starting, until 3-4 years later when the battery was on its way out again.

Nige'

[wedg1e]

Hot start is a known issue on the later 2.8 setup; for some reason Ford modified the injection system and caused more problems than they fixed.
I know of a late wedge and an S series that have the later setup, they both suffered hot start problems. It tends not to afflict earlier cars though...

However starter motor gremlins/ bad earths can strike anywhere!

[heyandy]

Had same problem after car had been sitting unused for a while. A sharp on the solenoid did the trick. First time it happened RAC said it was the earth lead. Changed that and it still happened...tapping the solenoid always works. It settles down once the car gets used more frequently...

[timpailthorpe]

york33 said:

Why is the evil thing doing this, any ideas anyone before I belt it with a sledgehammer?!

Probably not as bad an idea as it sounds. Next time it does it hit the starter soundly with a Yorkshire screwdriver. If anything is sticking that may well shift it.

[york33]

Well, being a well prepared type, I always carry a hammer in the boot (and trolley jack, axle stands, sockets, spanners, etc) and did clobber it repeatedly! This didn't seem to help the starting but made me feel better

I'm hopeful it may improve with use as I've tried it a couple more times since then and it's now usually starting perfectly when hot. Though still misbehaves occasionally. In the garage for moment as not reliable enough for work purposes, but may win a reprieve if she keeps improving!

thanks all for your ideas
Dave

[grahamw48]

If you think it's the starter or solenoid sticking, just putting it in gear and shoving it forward should free it off.
That's what we used to do in 'the old days'.

You can test the starter by taking it off and connecting direct to battery, if lazy, just give it a clean.

[adam quantrill]

Some of the starters have a nipple that you can press in - to engage the dog gear or whatever it's called.

You can introduce some lubricant in here - quite often very easily because the nipple thing is broken up anyway.

I personally put in some Copaslip and haven't had a problem since, despite warnings to the contrary - it's an abrasive - but as the started was semi-siezing like yours it probably needed a slight abrasive in there.

[york33]

I don't think it's the solenoid, at least it's not making that sort of noise, but who knows it could be! I gave it a good shove downhill in gear and that didn't liven it up! That said, it hasn't done it for a few days now.....not that I can get in the garage now as the electric door opener is playing up, doh! I'll have a check for a nipple, can't say I've noticed one, but that could be useful, cheers



>> Edited by york33 on Friday 26th August 17:21

[geddy]

is the starter relay clicking? Try swapping relays over if not.. I had problems in this area once but changing the relay sorted it