Wedge Chassis Problems
Discussion
At the Surrey TVR CC nite on Thurday - I was talking with the owner of this lovely 400SE (blue in foreground):
[pic]http://www.showoffyourcar.com//cars/TVR/12822.JPG[/pic]
Who mentioned that it had just failed the MOT on Chassis rust corrusion - on the outriggers and chassis mounting plates.
He has had a few quotes of labour for this - of 60 ~ 80 hrs @ £30 / hr.. whilst this does not seem excessive he was keen to take on as much of the task as he could himself.
Has anyone her done a body off chassis restoration - I think he would be keep to know what his options are and have a phone conversation with someone who has actually stripped one down..
He is no welder - so I volunteered my services (just the welding) if he decides to persue that route..
What have you lot done ?
[pic]http://www.showoffyourcar.com//cars/TVR/12822.JPG[/pic]
Who mentioned that it had just failed the MOT on Chassis rust corrusion - on the outriggers and chassis mounting plates.
He has had a few quotes of labour for this - of 60 ~ 80 hrs @ £30 / hr.. whilst this does not seem excessive he was keen to take on as much of the task as he could himself.
Has anyone her done a body off chassis restoration - I think he would be keep to know what his options are and have a phone conversation with someone who has actually stripped one down..
He is no welder - so I volunteered my services (just the welding) if he decides to persue that route..
What have you lot done ?
I've done the job on my car except the welding. It is easily done provided you have the tools and the space to work. More importantly....there is no need to get the body off as it can be done with just the sill panels removed.
You will need to source the tubing and to fabricate the sill panels which should cost no more than £50. With regard the welding, there are people who will come to you and do what is required provided you get a few quotes and a guarentee for their work.
You will need to source the tubing and to fabricate the sill panels which should cost no more than £50. With regard the welding, there are people who will come to you and do what is required provided you get a few quotes and a guarentee for their work.
If the outriggers are failing MOT standards , regardless of what the testers are finding , there is almost certainly far worse that is not visible .
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wedgies/images/DCP_0164.JPG
What is not visible in the pic is the top diff mounting which is also very susceptible to SEVERE corossion .
Bear in mind that Karens car was a 1991 " H" plate .
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wedgies/images/DCP_0164.JPG
What is not visible in the pic is the top diff mounting which is also very susceptible to SEVERE corossion .
Bear in mind that Karens car was a 1991 " H" plate .
beastie said:
oh great, you mean I have yet more joy to come??
Totally off the subject but if it helps to cheer you up I can remember this car (great no plate) at a Castle Combe track day 1997 - one fast 400SE. Also IIRC there is a special sealed finish that can be apllied to paintwork and this car was used as the advertisement.
I have carried out a body off chassis replacement on a 1990 400SE.
My original intention was to remove the body for repair/renewal of corroded outriggers. When the body was removed I found the chassis condition to be much worse than expected. Many corrosion areas were very localised, and not easily visible (or impossible to see) while the body was on.
My chassis could have been repaired but it would have required fabrication of some jigs to (maintain suspension location/alignment positions).
Repair was needed at about a dozen locations additional to renewal of the outriggers. Locations included holes in the main chassis longitudinal and bracing tubes, thinning of rear end square tubes (to rear of differential), thinning of front spring turret plates, thinning of tube in way of rear radius arm brackets etc, etc.
Many spots could have been repaired by insertion of a few inches of new tubing as a few inches away from the corrosion defects the original chassis powder coating and steel seemed to be intact.
I did not investigate if corrosion was occurring inside the tubes, but from the size and location of some of the holes I believe corrosion from the inside must have been present - at least in some places, to an unknown extent.
In my case I decided to bite the bullet and renew the chassis - new chassis bought from TVR factory (abt Jan 2003). I tend to keep my cars for a very long time. (I still have the first car I purchased - in 1969). I thought that if I repaired the chassis, I might find in a few years time that I had not gone quite far enough when first repairing it and would then have to repair it again.
I did all the work myself and am happy to share my experience. I did have access to garage facilities (including a four post ramp) which helped with the dismantling/reassembly.
If the car owner e-mails me direct I can forward more details of where I found problems and also list items to disconnect, location of chassis/body bolts etc. Alternatively I can send them to you Alan. I have nearly finished an article (long overdue) for Mike's wedge pages, and must soon find time to complete it.
(semi-retirement has been busier than expected!!)
Rgds
Hamish
My original intention was to remove the body for repair/renewal of corroded outriggers. When the body was removed I found the chassis condition to be much worse than expected. Many corrosion areas were very localised, and not easily visible (or impossible to see) while the body was on.
My chassis could have been repaired but it would have required fabrication of some jigs to (maintain suspension location/alignment positions).
Repair was needed at about a dozen locations additional to renewal of the outriggers. Locations included holes in the main chassis longitudinal and bracing tubes, thinning of rear end square tubes (to rear of differential), thinning of front spring turret plates, thinning of tube in way of rear radius arm brackets etc, etc.
Many spots could have been repaired by insertion of a few inches of new tubing as a few inches away from the corrosion defects the original chassis powder coating and steel seemed to be intact.
I did not investigate if corrosion was occurring inside the tubes, but from the size and location of some of the holes I believe corrosion from the inside must have been present - at least in some places, to an unknown extent.
In my case I decided to bite the bullet and renew the chassis - new chassis bought from TVR factory (abt Jan 2003). I tend to keep my cars for a very long time. (I still have the first car I purchased - in 1969). I thought that if I repaired the chassis, I might find in a few years time that I had not gone quite far enough when first repairing it and would then have to repair it again.
I did all the work myself and am happy to share my experience. I did have access to garage facilities (including a four post ramp) which helped with the dismantling/reassembly.
If the car owner e-mails me direct I can forward more details of where I found problems and also list items to disconnect, location of chassis/body bolts etc. Alternatively I can send them to you Alan. I have nearly finished an article (long overdue) for Mike's wedge pages, and must soon find time to complete it.
(semi-retirement has been busier than expected!!)
Rgds
Hamish
As an alternative to making jigs when replacing chassis tube, sometimes it's possible to weld on a bracing bar next to the section before you cut it out. Then you make the repair, and when you're finished, cut the bar off.
You obviously need a nice thick piece of mild steel to do this, but it saves some faffing about.
You obviously need a nice thick piece of mild steel to do this, but it saves some faffing about.
Adam,
Yes I agree.
I used jig as a loose term. The sort of thing that would have worked would have been be to put screwed rod and nuts securely through the two lugs for the radius arm, tack weld it to prevent any movement, and weld the rod somewhere else on to the chassis so that 3 inches of chassis tube that the lugs weld to could be cut out and renewed. Also another bit of bar would be required attached somewhere to brace the screwed rod in another plane to prevent any movement of the lugs.
Does that make sense ??
Hamish
Yes I agree.
I used jig as a loose term. The sort of thing that would have worked would have been be to put screwed rod and nuts securely through the two lugs for the radius arm, tack weld it to prevent any movement, and weld the rod somewhere else on to the chassis so that 3 inches of chassis tube that the lugs weld to could be cut out and renewed. Also another bit of bar would be required attached somewhere to brace the screwed rod in another plane to prevent any movement of the lugs.
Does that make sense ??
Hamish
DIY is the way to go if you have the space. To go to the other extreme, the previous owner of my 350 had a new chassis fitted by David Gerald in Worcester back in 2001 the total bill was over 7k...... nice for me but VERY painfull for them. It is still in perfect condition and I consider myself very lucky not to have to worry about that aspect of wedge ownership. Good Luck
Well,
I've been down and had a look.
It's not as bad as many feared.
Both Outriggers (front to rear) , and outer mounting plates are shot - plus the tubes from the outriggers for about 6 inches to a foot and none too healthy either.
The rest of the chassis is fine - mainly because of the amount of oil being lost by the engine & maybe gearbox.. sometimes an oil leak can save you a fortune.
So - the good new if you can call it is that it can be done without lifting the body off..
I also found : severe fuel leak from the sender, rad is shot and is held in plate on one side by some rope.. I kid you not, also air leak on inlet (somewhere), sump gasket needed and header to exhaust sealing rings..
Other than that - quite a nice car
I've been down and had a look.
It's not as bad as many feared.
Both Outriggers (front to rear) , and outer mounting plates are shot - plus the tubes from the outriggers for about 6 inches to a foot and none too healthy either.
The rest of the chassis is fine - mainly because of the amount of oil being lost by the engine & maybe gearbox.. sometimes an oil leak can save you a fortune.
So - the good new if you can call it is that it can be done without lifting the body off..
I also found : severe fuel leak from the sender, rad is shot and is held in plate on one side by some rope.. I kid you not, also air leak on inlet (somewhere), sump gasket needed and header to exhaust sealing rings..
Other than that - quite a nice car
Well, of the rest of those issues, the rad is probably the most expensive and the fuel leak the most awkward to get at.
The exhausts are par for the course (as long as the manifold threads aren't stripped
) and the sump gasket will give him an excuse to drop a main and bigend cap to check the crank.
Alan: I realise I was talking bollox earlier; an Amp per thou is of course 80A for 2mm; you shouldn't have any probs with that because your MIG won't be anywhere near minimum
Just stock up on 7-pounders and swear words...
The exhausts are par for the course (as long as the manifold threads aren't stripped
) and the sump gasket will give him an excuse to drop a main and bigend cap to check the crank. Alan: I realise I was talking bollox earlier; an Amp per thou is of course 80A for 2mm; you shouldn't have any probs with that because your MIG won't be anywhere near minimum
Just stock up on 7-pounders and swear words...
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