CAD/Engineering Drawings

[eesbad]

Having bumped into a fellow 3D Design Engineer yesterday (Morning Woody!), it stirred something that I have been mulling over...

Has anyone seen or have access to any CAD or Technical Drawings for the Wedge chassis? I am guessing this is probably the Holy Grail, but I would like to have a go at modelling it up in 3D and perhaps assess the possibility of having one made in stainless steel...

[.Woody]

Morning Rick, until recently no TVR's as I remember from a press statement when the Typhoon was introduced, have been fully modelled in CAD, probably not at all.
I have been tempted with the same idea tho, but no longer have a CAD package at home as none I have work on Vista

[eesbad]

.Woody said:

no TVR's as I remember from a press statement when the Typhoon was introduced, have been fully modelled in CAD, probably not at all.

That's as I suspected... I wonder if anyone has had a go at it though? A colleague of mine is designing his own kit car at the mo and has modelled a Ford Pinto engine in 3D!

Other than that, I guess it's off with the body and out with the tape!!

[dickymint]

.Woody said:

Morning Rick, until recently no TVR's as I remember from a press statement when the Typhoon was introduced, have been fully modelled in CAD, probably not at all.
I have been tempted with the same idea tho, but no longer have a CAD package at home as none I have work on Vista

Mail me if you need software

[Sireatalot]

HI All....

If anybody needs CAD / Engineering drawings drawn for parts etc... I can get them done in 2D / 3D as long as measurements etc.. can be provided.

In terms of the chassis model, I have declared mine SORN to get a few things sorted out, and plan to do a body off in the not to distant future. As part of this, I was going to 3D model the chassis. It would be for a 280i therefore may not be accurate for larger engine Wedges but never-the-less, would be a good place to start if one doesn't exist.

Hope this is of some help.
Cheers
Dom

[TVRleigh(BBWR)]

I too will be doing a body off the 280 BBWRC, I will also have a 350FHC Chassie coming soon, both trailing arm.

But I will take pic's and mesurements.

be cool if in GT5 you can upload you own car's in 3d and race them.

[mikeb]

You could ask TVRcarparts, I believe they have the factory jig?!

MikeyB

[pwd95]

mikeb said:

You could ask TVRcarparts, I believe they have the factory jig?!

MikeyB

Seen it.

[350zwelgje]

The factory was 'testing' CAD only in the beginning of the '90s (was in the office when they were starting and this is V8S/Griffith era), so on wedges no CAD stuff available from TVR themselves.

Rob

[350zwelgje]

The factory was 'testing' CAD only in the beginning of the '90s (was in the office when they were starting and this is V8S/Griffith era), so on wedges no CAD stuff available from TVR themselves.

Rob

[eesbad]

Sireatalot said:

As part of this, I was going to 3D model the chassis. It would be for a 280i therefore may not be accurate for larger engine Wedges but never-the-less, would be a good place to start if one doesn't exist.

Could be a good starting point, as you say Dom - let us know how you get on! With Leigh adding a few dimensions too - we may be able to get something going...

But then if the jig is available... Strange no-one has conceived of doing a stainless chassis before. However, I would want to model the original in mild steel and then run a FE analysis on it and use that as a marker for the stainless structure. Perhaps that's been the issue preventing it happening before?

[rev-erend]

eesbad said:

Sireatalot said:

As part of this, I was going to 3D model the chassis. It would be for a 280i therefore may not be accurate for larger engine Wedges but never-the-less, would be a good place to start if one doesn't exist.

Could be a good starting point, as you say Dom - let us know how you get on! With Leigh adding a few dimensions too - we may be able to get something going...

But then if the jig is available... Strange no-one has conceived of doing a stainless chassis before. However, I would want to model the original in mild steel and then run a FE analysis on it and use that as a marker for the stainless structure. Perhaps that's been the issue preventing it happening before?

What ?

Stainless ?

Never been done ?

Sure it has .. the factory made one or two SEAC's (allegedy) and also it was reported that the Le Mans racer would be in Stainless ..

There are probably good reasons why it has never been used for a commercial model .. like the fact that it retains heat so well when being welded ..

Someone like Stainless Steve would be better to comment than me as I only weld a small amount of the stuff but I imagine the chassis distortion would be much harder to stop than mild steel.

[shpub]

Stainless steel chassis were tried but they are very suspectible to cracking because the metal is brittle compared to mild steel. It is less likely to bend in an impact and its brittle nature makes it very suspectible to creating shards when it breaks. This is why they shouldn't be used for suspension bolts.

Add to this the increased costs and weight and it is not surprising that it is not used. IIRC the MSA banned its use for roll cages etc becuase it tended to break rather than bend.

[rev-erend]

shpub said:

Stainless steel chassis were tried but they are very suspectible to cracking because the metal is brittle compared to mild steel. It is less likely to bend in an impact and its brittle nature makes it very suspectible to creating shards when it breaks. This is why they shouldn't be used for suspension bolts.

Add to this the increased costs and weight and it is not surprising that it is not used. IIRC the MSA banned its use for roll cages etc becuase it tended to break rather than bend.

Sounds like good reasons not to use the stuff..

[TVRleigh(BBWR)]

Could ali tube not be used. like on the ducatti monster.

[shpub]

Yes but the chassis design could not simply be copied as ally has different characteristics and is not as strong. This means thicker material and bracing and this can outweigh any weight advantage. Also ally is also quite expensive especially the alloys that are typically used.

Mild steel is a great material for chassis (except for the corrosion) but even then, it is also relatively easy to repair/refurb mild steel chassis.

[rev-erend]

[quote=TVRleigh(BBWR)]Could ali tube not be used. like on the ducatti monster.
[/quote]

You gotta ask the question why TVR did not do it..and as Steve says - it's expensive and the weight saving is so small on a car of this size to make it just un-workable.

[TVRleigh(BBWR)]

Well I sure it was done to save costs. also they are not that worried about the car lasting for ever, so corrosion is not a major factor. unlike for us who what to keep them for ever.

[JR]

shpub said:

Yes but the chassis design could not simply be copied as ally has different characteristics.

Or in other words if you need to ask then you can't do it. (Temperature movement becomes important also.)

I can't think of any cars with an ally spaceframe. The Jag XJs and the Audi A8s come closest but not very close.

[eesbad]

GRP body and an aluminium chassis? Sounds a bit too much like a Lotus to me!!

Yep - ally is great for strength-to-weight ratio compared to steel, but you need more of it as its strength-to-volume ratio is far less than steel. And the shape is very critical, as it does not like cyclic loading and fatigue cracks all too easily. Which is probably why we are only starting to see aluminium chassis now - computer modelling can factor all of this in and project it over the lifetime of a vehicle. Something very difficult to calulate 'by hand'.

And I take the points made about stainless steel - I am very aware of the properties, as I design with it everyday... Which is why I said about running a stress/strain (FEA) simulation on it first, to see if it was feasible. More out of interest than anything else

And it would be interesting to see how good a job that TVR did in the first place by running the simulation on the existing chassis too