Differences to the S

[Chris71]

How would you sum up the difference between the S and the Wedges?

Taking a 350i and one of the V6 S's, they cost about the same, the power to weight ratios are about the same (in fact on paper the S' is higher) and they're both reasonably well trimmed open two seaters. What are the defining differences?

[adam quantrill]

It's not so scary in a wedge - looking at an S, you're very exposed.

I would imagine a tun up in an S with the top down would be quite windy, but in the wedge you're OK for 140 (on the autobahn, m'lud) if you have the horses.

[Chris71]

Interesting, I think that's the first time I've heard a wedge described as less scary than... well anything to be honest.

Probably worth pointing out my budget won't really stretch to a 420 SEAC or something, so the comparision is with a fairly basic 350 or 390.

[JR]

Torque to weight ratio will be higher for a 350i to an S. Wedge built to US crash standards.
Wedge is a generally better built car - not built down to a price to try to save the company because the Wedges were too expensive to sell.
Pop up headlights.
Easiest oil filter change ever.
Best sounding TVR.

Really, if you have to ask is the Wedge really for you?

[350zwelgje]

S: More classic shape, nice noise but nothing compared to a wedge, most come with V6 (only a few with 4.0 RV8), saved TVR for a few years, V6 engine tuning limited, close to sensible choice at least for a TVR. Exhaust grounds very easily compared to a wedge.....

Wedge: Very angular styling you like or hate, more noise (a lot of noise or you will nearly always be the loudest thing on the road), many with V8, made TVR to go bancrupt for a few years, close to unlimited engine tuning possible, the not sensible choice.

You can have fun with both. Think both are sort of equal reliable if looked after. Maintenance on both can be done by yourself. Both need a non rot chassis! Drive both and you know what you want, and real V8 noise is very convincing.... So would try the S first. Age and mileage do not matter, the state it is in and being looked after is better.

Rob

[combine]

sv8 ok , not the same sound from the others, you can't beat a v8 !

[beacon]

V8,V8,V8 wot more can you say.......

[pwd95]

Vid

http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h32/pwd95/Video/...

Can't see them being any different from a practical/every day point of view. You just get much more noise, power & presence in a wedge. It's more of an event.

Edited by pwd95 on Thursday 13th December 21:57

[Wedg1e]

Well, when the S came out they were about £12K, by which time a basic Wedge was pushing £20K. They cut the build time from 400 man-hours to 150, used 75% of the materials and perhaps more off-shelf bits - not in themselves bad things from a production point of view but from S's I've looked round there seem to be some cheap bits that haven't lasted well. You could say the same of Wedges of course...
S chassis these days are often as bad as, if not worse than similar-age wedges (I put my fingers through the sill tubes on an S just a few months back and that had recently passed an MOT )
The standard cockpit layout was OK or fairly gruesome according to taste, improved with the V8S. The flip-front design means you can see more of the chassis so it can look a lot crappier than a Wedge engine bay where much of the tubing is hidden. OTOH some aspects of access are improved, which may or may not matter depending on how much oily stuff you want to do. The front end of the chassis and the bonnet hangers can rot like crazy, causing major structural issues that the Wedge doesn't suffer from...

[red tasmin]

Wedges often come with power steering (later ones) which makes it easier to park. Faster and much more distinctive!

[Gandalf]

Chris71 said:

How would you sum up the difference between the S and the Wedges?

If you need to ask.............. your probably an S man!

But seriously you`ll not get so much "bang for your buck" or "smiles per mile", or annoy your neighbours so much as you will from a V8 Wedge - if you go for the later series II 350i it will benefit from superior "A Frame" rear suspension and limited slip diff etc.

[combine]

Enough said ! Whats the next comparison car with a wedge ?

[JR]

combine said:

Enough said ! Whats the next comparison car with a wedge ?

To be fair, to a newcomer it's hard to believe what you get for yopur money wedge wise, (with some pricey exceptions.)
Distinctive, strong, bespoke, british, fibreglass, comfortable, etc.

[jmorgan]

Lots of Q's being asked over the forums, which is good, but maybe the goggles of doom should be applied. Get a ride in a Big one. Then sell the family to buy one. Job done.

[Chris71]

Well, I'm actually going to see my first Wedge this evening. It'll be the first one I've seen up close since I was a teenager (tried to persuade my dad to get one to go with his M-Series and we had a look at a 280 FHC...) so that's kind of why I have to ask. In some respects I prefer the S, but I suspect the Wedge will indeed have a huge amount of presence and I'm also a sucker for a nice noise!

The impression I've got so far is...

Wedge:

• More GT biased? Bigger, heavier, but also more powerful
• More presence
• More noise
• Potential for huge performance, although the standard 350i doesn't deliver that much more than the S if you're prepared to work it. That's not a criticism - I just assumed they were all much quicker for some reason.
• Everyone seems to agree they wear better than the S - especially the interior. Actually first mentioned on the S forum IIRC.

S:

• More of a 'back to basics' sportscar - I'm told they're a bit more 'direct' and chuckable to drive. I do enjoy being a bit of a hooligan on occasions (sounds like a wedge trait I know!) but I'm also relatively cautious and wonder if the more docile S might offer a slightly bigger safety net? I like to throw a car around, but only if I know I can catch it!
• In photos I marginally prefer it's looks insde and out. The interior especially - not a fan of the rectangular, walnut panelled dash on the wedges.
• More compact car - I only have a tiny lockup garage. Actually had to discount a Lotus Excel because I wouldn't have been able to open the door once inside! Might also give you a bit more road to play with on a narrow lane.

Despite the comment above, I don't find the wedge an especially 'marmite' car to look at. I'm not immediately drawn to it, but I certainly don't think it's ugly. Aesthetically I think the drama of the wedge and the more classical good looks of the S put them about level, albeit in very different ways. I enjoy the extrovert nature of my kit car, which would tend to push me towards the 'shock an awe' wedges, but I'm also told the more minimalist S's are in some respects more full on (more exposure to the elements with the hood down for example). I think if I could afford a decent V8S the debate would be an awful lot simpler, but as it is I really can't call it! Both seem to attract huge loyalty from their owners and both groups seem to be helpful and enthusiastic.

...To be fair, there are worse dilemas to be faced with.

Edited by Chris71 on Friday 14th December 11:05

[JR]

Chris71 said:

S:

• More of a 'back to basics' sportscar - I'm told they're a bit more 'direct' and chuckable to drive. ...

I wouldn't agree with that. The torque of a 350i is a joy on track days, making drifting quite easy.

Chris71 said:

S:

• More compact car - I only have a tiny lockup garage. Actually had to discount a Lotus Excel because I wouldn't have been able to open the door once inside!

Hmmm. That might be a problem. The Excel was the main competitor for the 350i and IIRC is a similar size.

[pwd95]

You just have to try a few of each & buy the one you prefer. Good luck

[pwd95]

Width wise my 400SE was about the same width, wing mirror tip to tip, as my mate's BMW 3 seres compact. We measured them before be bought his.

[Chris71]

That's interesting to know - I got the impression they were quite a big car.

Like I said - it's about ten years since I've had a good look at one and I suspect it'll be one of those cars that you have to see in the flesh. I never liked Lambos until I had a good look at a Diablo at the motorshow one year and completetely reversed my decision!

As for the chuckability comment - that seems to be a common comment from the S owners (relating to their cars - not in direct comparison with the 350 necessarily). Conversely, even the owners usually give the impression that the wedges are quite scary to drive, although I've never found out exactly why - do they let go especially quickly? Do you have enough steering feedback to warn of impending doom? I was just slightly worried someone of [great enthusiasm, but] average skill like me might be relegated to 'point and squirt' motoring; blasting down the straights and teetering nervously round the corners.

Edited by Chris71 on Friday 14th December 13:51

[pwd95]

Chris71 said:

Do you have enough steering feedback to warn of impending doom?

Not unless you spend some cash on the suspension & bushes.

Chris71 said:

I was just slightly worried someone of [great enthusiasm, but] average skill like me might be relegated to 'point and squirt' motoring; blasting down the straights and teetering nervously round the corners.

Got it in one

I wouldn't even consider trying to go round corners at anywhere near the speed I used to in my old Excel.

Edited by pwd95 on Friday 14th December 14:23