Rattling rebuilt Rover V8
Discussion
The original pistons are often re used if bores and piston condition are within tolerance. Bores are just re honed and new piston rings are fitted and gapped accordingly.
The general consensus is the original pistons are stronger and more reliable than after market replacements so if there is no evidence of damage on either the pistons or bores they are re used.
If your getting good compression figures and power is good this suggests that area is working well.
Ordinarily the issues regarding small end rattle are more associated with the 5.0 litre engine but that doesn’t mean it can’t or doesn’t exist on the more standard smaller engines.
I had my 4.6 rebuilt and I also worried about slight rattles here and there of which the engine builder didn’t seem concerned. I did over 25,000 miles on that engine and power was as good after those miles as it was when rebuilt.
We are talking about a very old engine design and to some extent you have to expect it will never sound like a very modern engine design.
I constantly listened to my engine over those years after rebuild and could never really track down where the odd rattle/ rattles came from and then one day used some quality injector cleaner lubricant and low and behold my engine was much quieter after. This sounds like a red heron but well worth chucking a bottle of cleaner into your fuel and see if it makes any difference.
If you look at the nature of the small end on these engines they are always likely to rattle a bit as soon as they re run in similar to two stroke engines and that’s always been seen as completely normal on those type of engines so my view is if the builder isn’t concerned then just use the car and if it’s under warrantee it will probably last another 20 years.
Your issue has been around for years and you’re not the only one wondering about it.
The general consensus is the original pistons are stronger and more reliable than after market replacements so if there is no evidence of damage on either the pistons or bores they are re used.
If your getting good compression figures and power is good this suggests that area is working well.
Ordinarily the issues regarding small end rattle are more associated with the 5.0 litre engine but that doesn’t mean it can’t or doesn’t exist on the more standard smaller engines.
I had my 4.6 rebuilt and I also worried about slight rattles here and there of which the engine builder didn’t seem concerned. I did over 25,000 miles on that engine and power was as good after those miles as it was when rebuilt.
We are talking about a very old engine design and to some extent you have to expect it will never sound like a very modern engine design.
I constantly listened to my engine over those years after rebuild and could never really track down where the odd rattle/ rattles came from and then one day used some quality injector cleaner lubricant and low and behold my engine was much quieter after. This sounds like a red heron but well worth chucking a bottle of cleaner into your fuel and see if it makes any difference.
If you look at the nature of the small end on these engines they are always likely to rattle a bit as soon as they re run in similar to two stroke engines and that’s always been seen as completely normal on those type of engines so my view is if the builder isn’t concerned then just use the car and if it’s under warrantee it will probably last another 20 years.
Your issue has been around for years and you’re not the only one wondering about it.
neogeo9 said:
Interested in views from those with Rover V8 engine building experience.
A few thousand miles ago I had my Chimaera's 3.9 RV8 professionally rebuilt by a specialist. The engine is still under warranty and I d prefer to keep the builder anonymous as this isn t intended as a criticism or a naming and shaming exercise.
The engine runs well, makes good power and has healthy oil pressure. However, it developed a noticeable rattle during rev decay and on the overrun at low road speeds days after collection. The builder has listened to it in person and stated that he believes it is likely piston / small-end related, although he is not currently concerned by it.
What has left me questioning things is that I originally took the engine in due to a lifter tick and general wear concerns. Once the decision to rebuild was made, I authorised a full rebuild without hesitation and budget genuinely wasn t the driving factor. I was happy to spend what was required to end up with the best engine possible and numerous upgrades were discussed and carried out during the build. I did not expect the end result to include rattling on the overrun.
What was never discussed, however, was piston replacement. At the time I was fairly green when it came to Rover V8s and simply assumed that anything worth replacing would either be replaced or at least offered as an option. In hindsight, knowing what I know now, I would certainly have wanted that discussion.
So I m interested in hearing from those who rebuild or have rebuilt these engines:
- Is piston replacement routinely offered on a 3.9 rebuild, or only if measurements dictate?
- Is it common practice to reuse original pistons without issue?
- Have you encountered small-end / gudgeon pin noise after a rebuild where the engine otherwise performed perfectly well?
- Given the circumstances above, are my concerns justified, or am I worrying unnecessarily about what is effectively a normal Rover V8 characteristic?
I m not looking to start an argument with the builder, particularly as the engine remains under warranty. I m simply trying to understand what would generally be considered normal practice and whether others have encountered something similar.
Perhaps it may help if you mentioned exactly what was done to the engine during the rebuild process, including how many miles the engine had travelled before the rebuild process was carried out.A few thousand miles ago I had my Chimaera's 3.9 RV8 professionally rebuilt by a specialist. The engine is still under warranty and I d prefer to keep the builder anonymous as this isn t intended as a criticism or a naming and shaming exercise.
The engine runs well, makes good power and has healthy oil pressure. However, it developed a noticeable rattle during rev decay and on the overrun at low road speeds days after collection. The builder has listened to it in person and stated that he believes it is likely piston / small-end related, although he is not currently concerned by it.
What has left me questioning things is that I originally took the engine in due to a lifter tick and general wear concerns. Once the decision to rebuild was made, I authorised a full rebuild without hesitation and budget genuinely wasn t the driving factor. I was happy to spend what was required to end up with the best engine possible and numerous upgrades were discussed and carried out during the build. I did not expect the end result to include rattling on the overrun.
What was never discussed, however, was piston replacement. At the time I was fairly green when it came to Rover V8s and simply assumed that anything worth replacing would either be replaced or at least offered as an option. In hindsight, knowing what I know now, I would certainly have wanted that discussion.
So I m interested in hearing from those who rebuild or have rebuilt these engines:
- Is piston replacement routinely offered on a 3.9 rebuild, or only if measurements dictate?
- Is it common practice to reuse original pistons without issue?
- Have you encountered small-end / gudgeon pin noise after a rebuild where the engine otherwise performed perfectly well?
- Given the circumstances above, are my concerns justified, or am I worrying unnecessarily about what is effectively a normal Rover V8 characteristic?
I m not looking to start an argument with the builder, particularly as the engine remains under warranty. I m simply trying to understand what would generally be considered normal practice and whether others have encountered something similar.
Could it have been more beneficial, to have the engine fully reconditioned.
How long is left on the warrantee?
Personally I’d do what the builder suggests but if your not happy take it to someone else who has the knowledge and ask for a second opinion/ written document highlighting there opinion.
What oil are you using.
I found after well over 10 years after rebuild Millers oils seemed to work best on my car. 10/40 semi obviously. Other oils it occasionally displayed slight rattles but not anything to be that concerned about.
Personally I’d do what the builder suggests but if your not happy take it to someone else who has the knowledge and ask for a second opinion/ written document highlighting there opinion.
What oil are you using.
I found after well over 10 years after rebuild Millers oils seemed to work best on my car. 10/40 semi obviously. Other oils it occasionally displayed slight rattles but not anything to be that concerned about.
I'm not asking who rebuilt it .... But was it one the recognised TVR engine builders ? If it was then I'm surprised at their response ... if it wasn't then I would be tempted to take it to one of the respected / experienced TVR specialists like Power or STR8SIX or XWorks to see their response.
I know of someone who had their 5L rebuilt and after a couple of thousand started making some unwanted noises, there was talk of top end, bottom end, this, that etc etc, in the end it was a failed lifter. When they go they can be very noisy. With the rubbish that’s on the market I wouldn’t be in the slightest bit surprised if that’s what’s wrong.
As you may know the 500 bottom end is different to the the 400 and the work carried out to achieve the capacity is not ideal really which it what most say contributes to the rattle.
Your in a really tricky position now and I can sympathise with you, for me if the engine did not make this noise pre rebuild and not much has mechanically changed internally I would want a better explanation.
Your in a really tricky position now and I can sympathise with you, for me if the engine did not make this noise pre rebuild and not much has mechanically changed internally I would want a better explanation.
I think when the money your talking about is north of £10k I would expect perfection to be honest, I am not quite sure why it was that expensive.
The Rover V8 Engine appreciation group on Facebook is very good even if your not a user, I know some of the respected engine builders hang around there too and can name them if you pm me.
May be worth joining up even if it s just to ruffle a few feathers so to speak within reason of course.
The Rover V8 Engine appreciation group on Facebook is very good even if your not a user, I know some of the respected engine builders hang around there too and can name them if you pm me.
May be worth joining up even if it s just to ruffle a few feathers so to speak within reason of course.
Imo like many have said get a "gentle" second opinion from another specialist- 10k+ is a fair whack for most of us and I also wouldn't be happy in this situation.
Or go back to the original workshop and tell them you're not happy with the outcome and ask them what they can do to solve the problem. To avoid an all out battle- maybe offer to pay something towards solving the problem and if they're reasonable they'll hopefully compromise/discount the price (not ideal I know but sometimes worth it, to avoid getting lost in formal letters, solicitors, small claims court etc)
Or go back to the original workshop and tell them you're not happy with the outcome and ask them what they can do to solve the problem. To avoid an all out battle- maybe offer to pay something towards solving the problem and if they're reasonable they'll hopefully compromise/discount the price (not ideal I know but sometimes worth it, to avoid getting lost in formal letters, solicitors, small claims court etc)
But the engine builder has said he’s not taking it apart for that rattle so what’s the op meant to do but drive it and monitor the situation and if it gets worse simply take it back or get a second opinion as to what the noise might be and then go from there.
Based on the builders words who presumably is the one expert who offers a long warrantee that’s exactly what I’d be doing then maybe taking an oil sample nearer the service interval and getting it analysed.
If it’s piston or cam related then that sample will show different properties from one that’s little end related.
Because it appears to be intermittent I still suspect it’s little end related but that’s simply a guess as are all answers given on here.
My personal opinion for what it’s worse is even with new and decent parts there is large tolerances involved in these engines and the nature of high lift cams can also cause slight tapping/ rattling from day one and there’s not a lot you can do about it.
As I mentioned early on in this thread my rebuilt engine often displayed the odd rattle etc especially at low revs but did many a track day and long journeys of which were sometimes upto 3000 miles touring and never failed or even looked like it would and had excellent power throughout the 29,000 miles I did on it as I’ve just checked my records. The only thing I did that seemed to help was eventually run it on miller oils and it was definitely quieter after that.
I also remember running an oil Chimpongas highly recommended and from the moment I started it it made noise. I replaced that oil before I even did 50 miles and instantly it quietened down.
Many people run 20/40 and I suspect that’s simply to quieten them down but in truth my rattles never got any worse and overtime pretty much disappeared.
If it’s got a long warrantee use the car but be sensible about thrashing it and always take a minute to warm the engine at around1200/1500 revs before driving it or leaving it ticking over as that will eat the high lift cam in no time.
I work with a car that has an American v8 engine of the same design and from a similar time the RV was designed and it makes exactly the same type of noise and always has. This is a track based car which runs at high revs on a very regular basis and for many hours a day so very high mileage really and the rattle has never got worse and the engine runs very well and been very reliable.
You can change parts on a regular basis and still find they do this.
Based on the builders words who presumably is the one expert who offers a long warrantee that’s exactly what I’d be doing then maybe taking an oil sample nearer the service interval and getting it analysed.
If it’s piston or cam related then that sample will show different properties from one that’s little end related.
Because it appears to be intermittent I still suspect it’s little end related but that’s simply a guess as are all answers given on here.
My personal opinion for what it’s worse is even with new and decent parts there is large tolerances involved in these engines and the nature of high lift cams can also cause slight tapping/ rattling from day one and there’s not a lot you can do about it.
As I mentioned early on in this thread my rebuilt engine often displayed the odd rattle etc especially at low revs but did many a track day and long journeys of which were sometimes upto 3000 miles touring and never failed or even looked like it would and had excellent power throughout the 29,000 miles I did on it as I’ve just checked my records. The only thing I did that seemed to help was eventually run it on miller oils and it was definitely quieter after that.
I also remember running an oil Chimpongas highly recommended and from the moment I started it it made noise. I replaced that oil before I even did 50 miles and instantly it quietened down.
Many people run 20/40 and I suspect that’s simply to quieten them down but in truth my rattles never got any worse and overtime pretty much disappeared.
If it’s got a long warrantee use the car but be sensible about thrashing it and always take a minute to warm the engine at around1200/1500 revs before driving it or leaving it ticking over as that will eat the high lift cam in no time.
I work with a car that has an American v8 engine of the same design and from a similar time the RV was designed and it makes exactly the same type of noise and always has. This is a track based car which runs at high revs on a very regular basis and for many hours a day so very high mileage really and the rattle has never got worse and the engine runs very well and been very reliable.
You can change parts on a regular basis and still find they do this.
Be interested to know how long the warranty is.
I hope you find a resolution, tricky to advise here really as everybody has a slightly different opinion.
Just make sure you have it clearly in writing that they told you to just keep on using it.
This section of the forums are a little quiet these days so personally I would ask on that Rover V8 group on Facebook, you should get a much wider audience and opinion, some groups allow you to post anonymously but not sure on that one.
I hope you find a resolution, tricky to advise here really as everybody has a slightly different opinion.
Just make sure you have it clearly in writing that they told you to just keep on using it.
This section of the forums are a little quiet these days so personally I would ask on that Rover V8 group on Facebook, you should get a much wider audience and opinion, some groups allow you to post anonymously but not sure on that one.
Edited by Belle427 on Tuesday 16th June 07:10
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