Do new TVRs still represent good vfm?
Discussion
Was watching Top gear last night, and the article on the BMW M3 versus the new Audi S4 got me thinking.
these cars are roughly similar in price to a new T350c.
Dont get me wrong, I love TVRs, but I couldnt help thinking, you seem to get a lot more for your money from the Bimmer or the Audi, especially when you take costs of ownership into account (not that I particularly want to open that can of worms).
Anyone else think same/different?
these cars are roughly similar in price to a new T350c.
Dont get me wrong, I love TVRs, but I couldnt help thinking, you seem to get a lot more for your money from the Bimmer or the Audi, especially when you take costs of ownership into account (not that I particularly want to open that can of worms).
Anyone else think same/different?
They may well be better value...but are they as much fun? I dont think so.
I have an old S4 and while not as quick as the new one is still very fast but also very dull. A to B wet or dry its possibly the fastest car i have ever had.
Also own a Tamora and when its sunny and I want to have fun or have people stare slack jawed at my car you don't take the Audi out.
The Germans are also both slower 0-60 and 0-100 and you will beat them hands down in the dry.
I have an old S4 and while not as quick as the new one is still very fast but also very dull. A to B wet or dry its possibly the fastest car i have ever had.
Also own a Tamora and when its sunny and I want to have fun or have people stare slack jawed at my car you don't take the Audi out.
The Germans are also both slower 0-60 and 0-100 and you will beat them hands down in the dry.
there's no point comparing as they are just different! i have a chim and an audi and love both equally - the chim for it's outrageousness (new word?), sheer power, and lack of handling in the wet; the audi for its comfort, handling in ANY weather and load capacity (i can't fit 2 bikes on the roof of the chim!).
having said that, i want the new s4....
having said that, i want the new s4....
Was watching Top gear last night, and the article on the BMW M3 versus the new Audi S4 got me thinking.
these cars are roughly similar in price to a new T350c.
Dont get me wrong, I love TVRs, but I couldnt help thinking, you seem to get a lot more for your money from the Bimmer or the Audi, especially when you take costs of ownership into account (not that I particularly want to open that can of worms).
Anyone else think same/different?
The S4 lapped the Top Gear circuit in something like 1min 30.9 secs and the M3 about a second slower. The T350 they had on the last series (or was it a Tamora?) lapped in 1.29 - the same as the Lambo. It did it 1 sec quicker still with Stig modified suspension settings. So the TVR is quicker on a circuit as well as the road. In the dry of course. As long as I had another car for when the TVR breaks down I'd always choose the TVR over the Germans.
Thing is, they're very different cars. Since the TVR was as quick as the Lambo why spend another £120k on a Lambo? It doesn't work like that though does it?
We have 2 Audis in the house and although I like the S4, A4s just don't flip my switch (new or old). I have an A6 and the girlfriend has a TT. I personally would choose the M3 if the car had less of a reputation for being driven by ar5es (Sorry M3 drivers, but I think you know what I mean). An RS6 is what I really need for commuting and trips to the dump
By certain yardsticks, maybe they don't represent the vfm they did a few years back, but you do get something when you buy a Tiv that can't really be measured; not just the exclusivity that you'd never get with a Beemer or Audi...just that certain *something*.
I suppose its a head vs. heart thing...
I suppose its a head vs. heart thing...
How about value from this perspective... There are not many cars that offer supercar performance for TVR money. It's only the price that allows comparison with Audi/BMW etc... If you're comparing like-for-like then the TVRs are up against Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari etc. And in that ballpark the TVR's value is beyond question.
There is something special about a new TVR, which cannot be had by buying a new BMW or Audi, but it's not vfm. It's the ball-tingling awe that you get from ordering a piece of unique, highly tuned British engineering in a virginal condition.
I think that second hand tvrs probably are good vfm, but new ones are definitely not. Yes, the performance of a new (or old) TVR is blistering and the looks are unique and jaw-dropping, but new ones seem to depreciate at a ridiculous rate over the first 3 years and the build quality can be pretty poor.
BMWs are more boring, but I don't think that there is any argument for saying that they are less good vfm than TVRs - performance on the M3 and M5 is pretty outstanding even if they are not as quick as many TVRs in the right conditions, and there's no real compromise on build quality.
I think that second hand tvrs probably are good vfm, but new ones are definitely not. Yes, the performance of a new (or old) TVR is blistering and the looks are unique and jaw-dropping, but new ones seem to depreciate at a ridiculous rate over the first 3 years and the build quality can be pretty poor.
BMWs are more boring, but I don't think that there is any argument for saying that they are less good vfm than TVRs - performance on the M3 and M5 is pretty outstanding even if they are not as quick as many TVRs in the right conditions, and there's no real compromise on build quality.
MMm, VFM? Thats a good question and I do strongly still believe that a new TVR does represent good value for money. They are stunningly fast and pretty well equiped, but not in the normal sense of things (like Sat nav and gubbins like that - but more in bespoke buttons and flashy dashboards). In comparison with their competition they are factor CHEAPER. For example, to compare a Tamora / T350 to a Boxster is a little unfair - a loaded Boxster S is slightly more than a Tamora / T350 (slightly though), yet the performance of a TVR is Porsche Turbo-like. A Tuscan S will keep up with a Ferrari 360 (though not ultimately at high speed) for a quarter of the price....
Compare a TVR to the likes of a M3 or S4 and yes, they look a little overpriced. But compare 'like' for 'like' and they are pretty damn convincing... To put it another way, try comparing an M3 with a Ford Focus RS - ok so the M3 is faster, but nearly twice the price.... depends on how much it is worth....
Oh, and on the question of reliability and dealer performance. You are getting a car that is Porsche Turbo / Ferrari 360 performance for a fraction of the cost - do you honestly expect that it will be the same as a Ford to service and maintain? Of course not, so what you save on the purchase price you might loose on the resale and maintenance of the car.... ok, so it is not Ferrari levels here, but put it in perspective here please...
Cheers,
Paul
Compare a TVR to the likes of a M3 or S4 and yes, they look a little overpriced. But compare 'like' for 'like' and they are pretty damn convincing... To put it another way, try comparing an M3 with a Ford Focus RS - ok so the M3 is faster, but nearly twice the price.... depends on how much it is worth....
Oh, and on the question of reliability and dealer performance. You are getting a car that is Porsche Turbo / Ferrari 360 performance for a fraction of the cost - do you honestly expect that it will be the same as a Ford to service and maintain? Of course not, so what you save on the purchase price you might loose on the resale and maintenance of the car.... ok, so it is not Ferrari levels here, but put it in perspective here please...
Cheers,
Paul
I'm debating the purchase of a used Chimaera (with warrantee) from an official dealer as an everyday car. Having seen that you all seem to have alternative cars, I'm wondering whether the majority opinion on this thread would be "do it" or "wait till you can afford a back-up"?
Comments very much appreciated.
Comments very much appreciated.
Haggle a bit more, then "do-it" & buy a reliable japanese/german shed with the money you saved
pete s said: I'm wondering whether the majority opinion on this thread would be "do it" or "wait till you can afford a back-up"?
Comments very much appreciated.
Edited to say: don't get me wrong, my Chim has been 100% mechanically reliable in the 3 years that I've had it, but that's probably cos I do have another car, and the great Gaffa god works that way....
>> Edited by CraigAlsop on Monday 19th May 23:11
Having run a Chimaera for four years until recently, I'd say wait until you have a backup. I can really only speak for that model, of which my example was both typical and reliable. The trouble is that the true cost of ownership is only really revealed when you come to sell it. Then the issue of whether it's good VFM is thrown into stark relief.
If you don't care about residuals, then it's not an issue and the car is good VFM. If you don't drive it much -- eg it's a second or third car -- then ditto though less so.
But as a daily driver doing your average 10-12k miles a year? Poor VFM in my view since the residuals are generally appalling -- and this appears to be equally true of most recent TVR models (those made in the last 10 years), judging by the prices of cars only a few years old.
Still a fab drive etc etc though!
If you don't care about residuals, then it's not an issue and the car is good VFM. If you don't drive it much -- eg it's a second or third car -- then ditto though less so.
But as a daily driver doing your average 10-12k miles a year? Poor VFM in my view since the residuals are generally appalling -- and this appears to be equally true of most recent TVR models (those made in the last 10 years), judging by the prices of cars only a few years old.
Still a fab drive etc etc though!
All my TVRs have been run as my only daily comute car, I've taken TVRs to Belgium, Germany,Austria, Luxomburg,France,Sweden, Switzerland and Norway. I always drive them reasonably firmly and apart from a snapped throttle cable on the Tuscan(which I knew needed replacing..just being lazy)they have not let me down.
Just do it
Just do it
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