A lot of Saggy's for sale
Discussion
Never seen so many Saggys for sale at this time of year, the prices seem to be coming down as well, is this due to the new Griffith coming soon?
And it doesn’t look like they are going to go over One Hundred Grand now as people keeped saying, I think I better start going to look at a few of them now they are coming down in price.
And it doesn’t look like they are going to go over One Hundred Grand now as people keeped saying, I think I better start going to look at a few of them now they are coming down in price.
I don't see how the new Griffith would be causing this as they are entirely different animals. The Sag is the ultimate expression of the mad TVR marque. the new Griffith is pure function, a fine car I'm sure, but it's not borne out of TVR heritage, it's borne out of modern engineering. The sag was full of aesthetic design features which had now function. As Les says 'every hole and every curve is there purely for function'. I don't see how someone who loves form over function would sell it to buy function over form.
bobfather said:
I don't see how the new Griffith would be causing this as they are entirely different animals. The Sag is the ultimate expression of the mad TVR marque. the new Griffith is pure function, a fine car I'm sure, but it's not borne out of TVR heritage, it's borne out of modern engineering. The sag was full of aesthetic design features which had now function. As Les says 'every hole and every curve is there purely for function'. I don't see how someone who loves form over function would sell it to buy function over form.
I have to disagree with you on your remarks about the Sagaris having features with no function. If you are talking about the wheel arch air-pressure vents being filled in on the production car, this was a result of cost saving by the Russian. A filtering/ducting system was production ready prior to the cars launch and I personally drove a prototype fitted with this system in torrential rain with none of the 'spray and stones on the windscreen' later claimed. The decision to compromise the design by filling them in was the main reason I resigned. The truth is that the car was designed to incorporate all aerodynamic aids and this is the main reason for the cars still distinctive form. It was originally intended to be a replacement for the Tuscan Challenge car and not a road car at all, so focus was very much on function however, unusually, the functional stuff was baked in by a stylist, rather than by a race engineer in a rush later on. In fact, I would struggle to point out a single sculptural element of the car that doesn't have a valid aerodynamic or functional reason for being there and I was the Chief Designer of it. It was also tested in the wind tunnel at MIRA and benefited from the advice of the engineering team responsible for the TVR race team of the day, who built the Le Mans cars.
I get the impression that the new car is lacking in most of the ingredients that made the original cars so special. The supposed aerodynamic prowess of the new car seems to be assured by mere mention of GM and a diffuser. His career since the F1 doesn't fill me with the same level of confidence personally. If you get an engineer to design a horse, you get a camel. It's not very well styled, the front end especially and it is simply too dull. I can't imagine any school kids with a poster of it on the bedroom wall. And that was what it needed to do to re-launch the brand imho. Get people excited.
Englishman said:
Just the traditional late summer / autumn dip in TVR prices before sales dry up totally Dec to Feb. Many TVR only dealers went on holiday in winter months for a reason! The next few months is a good time to buy though, but prices will be up again next Spring, as usual.
Very true.
GB8CH said:
I have to disagree with you on your remarks about the Sagaris having features with no function. If you are talking about the wheel arch air-pressure vents being filled in on the production car, this was a result of cost saving by the Russian. A filtering/ducting system was production ready prior to the cars launch and I personally drove a prototype fitted with this system in torrential rain with none of the 'spray and stones on the windscreen' later claimed. The decision to compromise the design by filling them in was the main reason I resigned.
The truth is that the car was designed to incorporate all aerodynamic aids and this is the main reason for the cars still distinctive form. It was originally intended to be a replacement for the Tuscan Challenge car and not a road car at all, so focus was very much on function however, unusually, the functional stuff was baked in by a stylist, rather than by a race engineer in a rush later on. In fact, I would struggle to point out a single sculptural element of the car that doesn't have a valid aerodynamic or functional reason for being there and I was the Chief Designer of it. It was also tested in the wind tunnel at MIRA and benefited from the advice of the engineering team responsible for the TVR race team of the day, who built the Le Mans cars.
I get the impression that the new car is lacking in most of the ingredients that made the original cars so special. The supposed aerodynamic prowess of the new car seems to be assured by mere mention of GM and a diffuser. His career since the F1 doesn't fill me with the same level of confidence personally. If you get an engineer to design a horse, you get a camel. It's not very well styled, the front end especially and it is simply too dull. I can't imagine any school kids with a poster of it on the bedroom wall. And that was what it needed to do to re-launch the brand imho. Get people excited.
Thanks for posting that information. Interesting to hear from someone who was there at the time and during the design! The truth is that the car was designed to incorporate all aerodynamic aids and this is the main reason for the cars still distinctive form. It was originally intended to be a replacement for the Tuscan Challenge car and not a road car at all, so focus was very much on function however, unusually, the functional stuff was baked in by a stylist, rather than by a race engineer in a rush later on. In fact, I would struggle to point out a single sculptural element of the car that doesn't have a valid aerodynamic or functional reason for being there and I was the Chief Designer of it. It was also tested in the wind tunnel at MIRA and benefited from the advice of the engineering team responsible for the TVR race team of the day, who built the Le Mans cars.
I get the impression that the new car is lacking in most of the ingredients that made the original cars so special. The supposed aerodynamic prowess of the new car seems to be assured by mere mention of GM and a diffuser. His career since the F1 doesn't fill me with the same level of confidence personally. If you get an engineer to design a horse, you get a camel. It's not very well styled, the front end especially and it is simply too dull. I can't imagine any school kids with a poster of it on the bedroom wall. And that was what it needed to do to re-launch the brand imho. Get people excited.
I pulled out my deposit for the new one earlier this year, as I just kept on lusting after the Sagaris instead. These purchases are partly emotional after all... Finally got one a few months ago, and it's epic in every way. The drive. The looks. The sound. The reactions from people. The best decision I have made so far. No regrets at all. Anyone considering one, don't hesitate, get one bought
GB8CH said:
I get the impression that the new car is lacking in most of the ingredients that made the original cars so special. The supposed aerodynamic prowess of the new car seems to be assured by mere mention of GM and a diffuser. His career since the F1 doesn't fill me with the same level of confidence personally. If you get an engineer to design a horse, you get a camel. It's not very well styled, the front end especially and it is simply too dull. I can't imagine any school kids with a poster of it on the bedroom wall. And that was what it needed to do to re-launch the brand imho. Get people excited.
Have to say I agree with this - the input of GM into the car has been of a concern to me for virtually day on and ever since he criticized the ergonomics in EVO magazine at the time. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
At that time I posted (above) my concern that as most cars now have excellent ergonomics however to achieve that you all end up with the same product. The Cerbera has awful ergonomics but one of the best interiors of any car ever. You can't let engineers rule to roost, especially with something emotive like a TVR - you will get a very efficient but bland product (and we have)
H'm, ergonomics was what ultimately 'sold' the Chimaera to me when i first put my bum in one in 1999 - a sports car that felt tailor made for my 6'2.5" frame, that had the pedals where I would expect them (unlike the later T-cars) and that I felt I could drive the wheels off from the word go. 
The contrast to the Morgan that i also sampled that day could not have been bigger...
The contrast to the Morgan that i also sampled that day could not have been bigger...The prices for Sags does seem to been softening - usually the STR8Six cars are snapped up before they ever make it on to here yet arn't sold. And not much has sold recently Sag wise
Don't think its related to the new car in anyway - lets face it no need for an owner imminently get rid of a car as the new one isn't showing up anytime soon
Don't think its related to the new car in anyway - lets face it no need for an owner imminently get rid of a car as the new one isn't showing up anytime soon
It’s August and the price of lots of things always fall in August. Houses being a good example.
But Sags at the moment appear to simply be following the completely standard event of a few people testing the market at sharply higher values which brings out a lot of the people who were pondering selling in a closer bunch than usual and that triggers a softening in values. After a while the market soaks up that supply and is back where it was but now has that original high valuation figure floating around that causes values to move upwards again.
Ultimately, if you look at how the classic market works on the wider picture, people who are over 55 find that they have excess money with which to indulge in a purchase of a car from their youth that was imprinted in the mind back then. Over the next decade or so those who were in their twenties during the 90s will be reaching this zone. If we think back to the 90s what was one of the seminal, desirable and well loved car brands of that era that stood out from everything else?
Putting aside the possibilities of a general, market wide crash the ama unit of money that is about to start flowing into the classic TVR market is going to grow heavily and personally I don’t think we’ve seen anything yet in terms of true price growth compared to what is coming.
But Sags at the moment appear to simply be following the completely standard event of a few people testing the market at sharply higher values which brings out a lot of the people who were pondering selling in a closer bunch than usual and that triggers a softening in values. After a while the market soaks up that supply and is back where it was but now has that original high valuation figure floating around that causes values to move upwards again.
Ultimately, if you look at how the classic market works on the wider picture, people who are over 55 find that they have excess money with which to indulge in a purchase of a car from their youth that was imprinted in the mind back then. Over the next decade or so those who were in their twenties during the 90s will be reaching this zone. If we think back to the 90s what was one of the seminal, desirable and well loved car brands of that era that stood out from everything else?
Putting aside the possibilities of a general, market wide crash the ama unit of money that is about to start flowing into the classic TVR market is going to grow heavily and personally I don’t think we’ve seen anything yet in terms of true price growth compared to what is coming.
DonkeyApple said:
It’s August and the price of lots of things always fall in August. Houses being a good example.
But Sags at the moment appear to simply be following the completely standard event of a few people testing the market at sharply higher values which brings out a lot of the people who were pondering selling in a closer bunch than usual and that triggers a softening in values. After a while the market soaks up that supply and is back where it was but now has that original high valuation figure floating around that causes values to move upwards again.
Ultimately, if you look at how the classic market works on the wider picture, people who are over 55 find that they have excess money with which to indulge in a purchase of a car from their youth that was imprinted in the mind back then. Over the next decade or so those who were in their twenties during the 90s will be reaching this zone. If we think back to the 90s what was one of the seminal, desirable and well loved car brands of that era that stood out from everything else?
Putting aside the possibilities of a general, market wide crash the ama unit of money that is about to start flowing into the classic TVR market is going to grow heavily and personally I don’t think we’ve seen anything yet in terms of true price growth compared to what is coming.
But Sags at the moment appear to simply be following the completely standard event of a few people testing the market at sharply higher values which brings out a lot of the people who were pondering selling in a closer bunch than usual and that triggers a softening in values. After a while the market soaks up that supply and is back where it was but now has that original high valuation figure floating around that causes values to move upwards again.
Ultimately, if you look at how the classic market works on the wider picture, people who are over 55 find that they have excess money with which to indulge in a purchase of a car from their youth that was imprinted in the mind back then. Over the next decade or so those who were in their twenties during the 90s will be reaching this zone. If we think back to the 90s what was one of the seminal, desirable and well loved car brands of that era that stood out from everything else?
Putting aside the possibilities of a general, market wide crash the ama unit of money that is about to start flowing into the classic TVR market is going to grow heavily and personally I don’t think we’ve seen anything yet in terms of true price growth compared to what is coming.
well thats put me in a good mood as1) I was 45 when I bought (for cash) my Sagaris
2) I am not planning selling it anytime soon!
Cheers DA
If you look around you will notice that some rare cars are coming up for sale.
This is the Brexit affect. People are liquifying assets. It's gonna be a rocky road. A bit like poker if you hold out you will get a killer bargain. Some will eventually sell low.
The used car market is starting to stagmate
This is the Brexit affect. People are liquifying assets. It's gonna be a rocky road. A bit like poker if you hold out you will get a killer bargain. Some will eventually sell low.
The used car market is starting to stagmate
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