Bedford TD major c#ck up, worth a look.
Discussion
For all you guys that know Bedford and others that don't.
Here's a video clip taken from the Track Day forum showing how someone got it severely wrong on a track day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unEONw5-x9s
Its worth reading the thread just to get an insight and other peoples views.
My view is that he must have tried very hard to mess things up, in fact I'm sure you couldn't get a TVR to do that.
Several years I was coming around that bend to the left of the pits, (a very fast right hander) at about 90 with Grahamn in hot pursuit in his cerb.
Taking a minutely different line to avoid a straggler, the rear let go and I started spinning at that speed.
The only direction the laws of physics will take you is to the outside of the bend which is the infield away from the pits.
I can only imagine he lost the rear, stayed on the throttle while pointing at the pits, gained some traction and that's where he came in on the film.
Amazingly, he was apparently under instruction!
Have a read here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Here's a video clip taken from the Track Day forum showing how someone got it severely wrong on a track day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unEONw5-x9s
Its worth reading the thread just to get an insight and other peoples views.
My view is that he must have tried very hard to mess things up, in fact I'm sure you couldn't get a TVR to do that.
Several years I was coming around that bend to the left of the pits, (a very fast right hander) at about 90 with Grahamn in hot pursuit in his cerb.
Taking a minutely different line to avoid a straggler, the rear let go and I started spinning at that speed.
The only direction the laws of physics will take you is to the outside of the bend which is the infield away from the pits.
I can only imagine he lost the rear, stayed on the throttle while pointing at the pits, gained some traction and that's where he came in on the film.
Amazingly, he was apparently under instruction!
Have a read here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
No track is safe!
Those bmms are fast, got it wrong,over committed then lost it again on exit already on a bad line, you often see cars spearing off the opposite way to what you'd think but as that's a fast corner you would think as Phazed said, the car would bounce off and over the outside curb.he should have straightened it up and accepted the best of a bad deal!
Must have introduced some throttle which pushed him on and into a later slide and very off line, see how late and for long the car just slides away.
What does an M3 weigh,
If he was trying to correct then at least he was trying something but it's a s
tty accident.
Can happen at any time when your pushing the limits.
It's probably a lesson in keeping it all in shape, it's all very well sliding but if your not experienced what you do when it's not working out is more important than any angles you can manage.
I'm sure the driver here is more than capable and it's an example of how it can go very quickly from good to bad if the car moves off the tyre edge.
Hope the car and driver are back out there soon.
Those bmms are fast, got it wrong,over committed then lost it again on exit already on a bad line, you often see cars spearing off the opposite way to what you'd think but as that's a fast corner you would think as Phazed said, the car would bounce off and over the outside curb.he should have straightened it up and accepted the best of a bad deal!
Must have introduced some throttle which pushed him on and into a later slide and very off line, see how late and for long the car just slides away.
What does an M3 weigh,
If he was trying to correct then at least he was trying something but it's a s
tty accident. Can happen at any time when your pushing the limits.
It's probably a lesson in keeping it all in shape, it's all very well sliding but if your not experienced what you do when it's not working out is more important than any angles you can manage.
I'm sure the driver here is more than capable and it's an example of how it can go very quickly from good to bad if the car moves off the tyre edge.
Hope the car and driver are back out there soon.
Edited by Classichims on Thursday 5th June 00:23
No track is safe!
Those bmms are fast, got it wrong,over committed then lost it again on exit already on a bad line, you often see cars spearing off the opposite way to what you'd think but as that's a fast corner you would think as Phazed said, the car would bounce off and over the outside curb.he should have straightened it up and accepted the best of a bad deal!
Must have introduced some throttle which pushed him on and into a later slide and very off line, see how late and for long the car just slides away.
What does an M3 weigh,
If he was trying to correct then at least he was trying something but it's a stty accident.
Can happen at any time when your pushing the limits.
It's probably a lesson in keeping it all in shape, it's all very well sliding but if your not experienced what you do when it's not working out is more important than any angles you can manage.
I'm sure the driver here is more than capable and it's an example of how it can go very quickly from good to bad if the car moves off the tyre edge.
Hope the car and driver are back out there soon.
Those bmms are fast, got it wrong,over committed then lost it again on exit already on a bad line, you often see cars spearing off the opposite way to what you'd think but as that's a fast corner you would think as Phazed said, the car would bounce off and over the outside curb.he should have straightened it up and accepted the best of a bad deal!
Must have introduced some throttle which pushed him on and into a later slide and very off line, see how late and for long the car just slides away.
What does an M3 weigh,
If he was trying to correct then at least he was trying something but it's a s
tty accident. Can happen at any time when your pushing the limits.
It's probably a lesson in keeping it all in shape, it's all very well sliding but if your not experienced what you do when it's not working out is more important than any angles you can manage.
I'm sure the driver here is more than capable and it's an example of how it can go very quickly from good to bad if the car moves off the tyre edge.
Hope the car and driver are back out there soon.
Edited by Classichims on Thursday 5th June 00:23
Look carefully, he did have opposite lock and IMHO was still power on till the death!
If you lose it at speed and are still on Tarmac, hit the brakes and it is truly amazing how quick you'll stop.
I believe he just kept it floored hoping to regain full control and exit correctly.
Too much Top/fifth Gear methinks.
If you lose it at speed and are still on Tarmac, hit the brakes and it is truly amazing how quick you'll stop.
I believe he just kept it floored hoping to regain full control and exit correctly.
Too much Top/fifth Gear methinks.
As we can't see his entry he could have gone in to fast and lost balance after ramming over the inner curb trying to maintain a line, just went past the point of no return and didn't react. It's best to know when it's over and as you say Peter just stop as fast as you can, I'd rather go straight and fight the thing than sort out an uncontrolled spin.
It's easy to say after I've had five minutes to think about it though.
I've had a few fast offs or even just pushing to hard, mainly in a cart, very fast and not good, it hurts like hell,
The biggest lesson from this incident is to consider your crashes even more than your good driving,
Once I stopped and took full responsibility for what happened I stopped crashing.
Study why you went off and never put yourself in that place again. Simples.
Unless there's money on it I find it difficult to see why I'd bother risking my road car in this way.
I'd rather stay well within myself and stay on line but then I own a beautiful Tvr, hahah.
It's easy to say after I've had five minutes to think about it though.
I've had a few fast offs or even just pushing to hard, mainly in a cart, very fast and not good, it hurts like hell,
The biggest lesson from this incident is to consider your crashes even more than your good driving,
Once I stopped and took full responsibility for what happened I stopped crashing.
Study why you went off and never put yourself in that place again. Simples.
Unless there's money on it I find it difficult to see why I'd bother risking my road car in this way.
I'd rather stay well within myself and stay on line but then I own a beautiful Tvr, hahah.
Quite common for cars to exit to the inside of the corner like that on the road. I've done it, there was a thread with an elise that'd jumped the armco coming off a roundabout that'd done it recently as well. Back comes around, power still on as i've got crap reactions, car fires itself into the scenery (thorny bush in my case) to the inside of the corner.
Thinking about it I've done it at bedford as well in the wet. Not that corner but the last left hander before the pits in the "SEN" configuration (e.g. not the normal pits). Car was turned around before I knew it'd started to slide, exit stage left into the center of the circuit...which was preferable to the grassy mound.
Thinking about it I've done it at bedford as well in the wet. Not that corner but the last left hander before the pits in the "SEN" configuration (e.g. not the normal pits). Car was turned around before I knew it'd started to slide, exit stage left into the center of the circuit...which was preferable to the grassy mound.
jamienshelly said:
As Peter says, he just kept the power on with opposite lock, but had too much inertia pushing the rear round.
Whats the old saying "If in doubt, Power out!" or Power over in his case. Glad he survived but I don't think his pants did..
I'm pretty sure the Pug driver exiting the pitlane didn't escape with his pants intact either. Whats the old saying "If in doubt, Power out!" or Power over in his case. Glad he survived but I don't think his pants did..
Palmer gets most everything right at Bedford but both times I've been there I thought they were sloppy with the pit releases and so am watchful whether exiting or approaching the exit area. Not that it would have made much difference in this case.
jamienshelly said:
As Peter says, he just kept the power on with opposite lock, but had too much inertia pushing the rear round.
Whats the old saying "If in doubt, Power out!" or Power over in his case. Glad he survived but I don't think his pants did..
Full-on pedant mode here, but inertia is the reluctance to move or accelerate (due to mass), momentum is the reluctance to decelerate (due to kinetic energy). Sorry. Whats the old saying "If in doubt, Power out!" or Power over in his case. Glad he survived but I don't think his pants did..
fausTVR said:
jamienshelly said:
As Peter says, he just kept the power on with opposite lock, but had too much inertia pushing the rear round.
Whats the old saying "If in doubt, Power out!" or Power over in his case. Glad he survived but I don't think his pants did..
Full-on pedant mode here, but inertia is the reluctance to move or accelerate (due to mass), momentum is the reluctance to decelerate (due to kinetic energy). Sorry. Whats the old saying "If in doubt, Power out!" or Power over in his case. Glad he survived but I don't think his pants did..
Ouch. Ruined his day. When it comes into shot you can hear that he's got the throttle pinned and the rears are well spun up. Looks like he's got full opposite lock on too but his slide angle is just too extreme to recover and getting bigger. Car goes in the direction the front wheels are pointing which is off the inside.
If he'd backed off the throttle to reduce his slide angle rather than keeping his boot in he'd probably have been ok.
If he'd backed off the throttle to reduce his slide angle rather than keeping his boot in he'd probably have been ok.
looks like classic power over steer...should have modulated the throttle to control but kept the foot buried in the shagpile, rear end ran out of grey stuff which started the journey to the infield.
Seen a couple of cars do it in front of me on track the worst was a Nissan 350/370Z at the Ring where he stuffed it into the pit wall head on exiting the corner
Seen a couple of cars do it in front of me on track the worst was a Nissan 350/370Z at the Ring where he stuffed it into the pit wall head on exiting the corner
phazed said:
If you lose it at speed and are still on Tarmac, hit the brakes and it is truly amazing how quick you'll stop.
Into a spin, both feet in! (Clutch and brake obviously)Square tyres are a lot cheaper to fix than... Well the entire car by the looks of this.
Glad everyone was ok, really hope TD insurance was in place.
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