Fitting New Switch to Release Boot Window Help

[zakmuh]

Hi

I'm here to get some advice on fitting a new external switch on the boot door to release boot window in my car 2003 Kia Sorento.

There's a button on the dashboard to release the boot window, which also can be released by the key on the door. Now I want to add a (number 3 on the sketch) switch right next to the latch, so that I can simply press and open the window without the key or without going to the cockpit to press the button (basically the window release motor will be having 3 switches now), like the one in Pug 407SW.

Please could anyone help me with the wiring - from where I can draw the + power from and do I need a relay (sorry, what's a 'relay' used for?) or anything like that?

I've attached a quick sketch to show what I'm talking about.


Cheers

[karona]

Do you not have the key fob, with the remote button for the tailgate glass?

[zakmuh]

I do, but I need this switch fitted cos it comes handy for me with my little daughter. I don't happen to carry the fob all the time. This button in 407SW is very useful.

[karona]

zakmuh said:

I do, but I need this switch fitted cos it comes handy for me with my little daughter. I don't happen to carry the fob all the time. This button in 407SW is very useful.

OK, there's obviously permanent live in the tailgate, trace it in the plug to the central locking, There also must be a switched live to the glass lock solenoid, easy enough to trace if your arms are long enough to reach the dashboard Wire your switch between the permanent live and the switched live, place the switch where you can reach it while lifting the glass.
Complications? You may 'back-feed' power down the switched live, but the remote switch should be open circuit. You you could fit a diode to prevent this.

I've got to sort a rattle in my 2004 model tailgate in the next couple of days, I'll have a look and take some pics if you like.

[zakmuh]

Thanks Karona, but sorry for being a pain..please can you put these two words in layman's term, 'solenoid'

And yes please, share some pics if you can. That'd be highly helpful.

Or, can I not disconnect the key connection and wire it to a momentary switch directly?

Cheers

[karona]

zakmuh said:

Thanks Karona, but sorry for being a pain..please can you put these two words in layman's term, 'solenoid'

And yes please, share some pics if you can. That'd be highly helpful.

Or, can I not disconnect the key connection and wire it to a momentary switch directly?

Cheers

The bit that goes 'clunk' when you press the button is called a solenoid, basically an electric magnet that moves a bolt.

Basically what I'm suggesting is exactly what you're asking, connecting a momentary switch directly from an always on circuit to the solenoid, to unlock the glass.
What you must remember, with the glass open, there's a 'secret' way to open the whole tailgate without a key, what you're suggesting will leave your car insecure. Is that really what you want to do? Is it worth the extra 'convenience' of not holding the fob?

[zakmuh]

karona said:

....there's a 'secret' way to open the whole tailgate without a key, what you're suggesting will leave your car insecure. Is that really what you want to do? Is it worth the extra 'convenience' of not holding the fob?

Thanks for explaining.

Good point Karona, but I didn't want to leave it unlocked full time. I thought that switch would only be usable when the car is unlocked. From what you;re saying that would not be the case. Wiring from the release button on the dashboard would the ideal one I guess?

[karona]

zakmuh said:

Good point Karona, but I didn't want to leave it unlocked full time. I thought that switch would only be usable when the car is unlocked. From what you;re saying that would not be the case. Wiring from the release button on the dashboard would the ideal one I guess?

OK, now I'm really confused You want to be able to release the window glass while the whole tailgate is already unlocked?
Unlocking and raising the glass is a two handed operation,(one to push the button, the other to lift, the lock doesn't stay open) the tailgate is one handed,
Operating the tailgate without the fob in your hand/pocket is risky, if you unlock the car, and only open the tailgate, the whole car re-locks instantly when you close the tailgate, and sure as fate, one day you will put the fob down inside the boot. I've done it.

The method I've suggested will work with the car locked or unlocked, and leave your car insecure. For it only to work when unlocked, you would need to fit a micro switch to sense the position of the long lever on the internal lock mechanism in the tailgate, so that when the lever is in the unlock position, your new switch would become active.

[zakmuh]

karona said:

The method I've suggested will work with the car locked or unlocked, and leave your car insecure. For it only to work when unlocked, you would need to fit a micro switch to sense the position of the long lever on the internal lock mechanism in the tailgate, so that when the lever is in the unlock position, your new switch would become active.

Apologies for not making it clear.

No, I don't want the car to let me open the window anytime - I should be able to open it only when the whole car is unlocked. At the moment, with the key, it only releases the window - it doesn't unlock the car

Okay, so the + wire connection has to come through the micro switch to momentary switch - no need for any special circuit or anything like relay etc.

I appreciate your help on this Karona.

Cheers

Edited by zakmuh on Tuesday 9th May 09:03

[karona]

zakmuh said:

Apologies for not making it clear.

No, I don't want the car to let me open the window anytime - I should be able to open it only when the whole car is unlocked. At the moment, with the key, it only releases the window - it doesn't unlock the car

Okay, so the + wire connection has to come through the micro switch to momentary switch - no need for any special circuit or anything like relay etc.

I appreciate your help on this Karona.

Cheers

No worries
To do a decent job that'll last more than 5 minutes being slammed inside the tailgate, you'll need the following:
Multimeter, Screwdrivers, Wire stripper, Crimping tool, bullet and spade crimped terminals, a soldering iron, heat shrink sleeve, a suitable blocking diode, 15 amp single core automotive cable, a microswitch and momentary push button, universal mounting perforated strip, etc. etc. etc.
Or you could get it done by your local tame mechanic for a few beer tokens.
Or you could glue a fridge magnet to the back of the key fob, and attach it to the tailgate when you need to unlock it.

[zakmuh]

Haha...Nice one

Again, whats the purpose for a diode and you have a reference number for it for me to get it from Maplin?

Cheers

[karona]

zakmuh said:

Haha...Nice one

Again, whats the purpose for a diode and you have a reference number for it for me to get it from Maplin?

Cheers

You're taking electricity from one wire attached to the 'computer' that controls the central locking, and connecting it to the end of another wire from the same computer, meant to open the glass. This may do absolutely no harm at all, or it may fry the computer causing it to fail altogether. The diode only lets the electricity flow into the lock, not back to the computer. Maplin doesn't list anything suitable, however

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SA12A-Fairchild-Semicond...

[zakmuh]

Thanks

I hope the blow diagram is correct?

[zakmuh]

Karona, If I don't want to disconnect the key switch, what electronic component do I have to use before window solenoid? Would that be a relay switch?

Cheers

[karona]

zakmuh said:

Thanks

I hope the blow diagram is correct?

Nope :-)
Your diagram is waayy too simplistic, the 'keyswitch' sends a feed TO the central locking, which sends a feed BACK to the solenoid
Take the wire to the microswitch off the 'boot door solenoid' and connect it to a permanent live in the harness plug at the key switch. .
take the diode out of the top line, and connect it in the dotted line to the left of the 'disconnected' box

No other devices or connections would be needed

[zakmuh]

Cheers for that.

I hope its correctly diagrammed this time

[karona]

zakmuh said:

Cheers for that.

I hope its correctly diagrammed this time

That's the concept, yes, although the need for a diode isn't obvious in that circuit, if you put the "disconnected" box back in, between the diode and key switch, and understand the diode is to protect the contents of the box from getting 12 volts in the wrong place. The disconnected box would be better known as an 'ECU' or 'MODULE'.

[zakmuh]

Thank you very much mate, highly appreciated

My dome light intermittently working. Its advises in the Kiaownersclub forum to shoulder or replace the diode. It'd be the similar function there as well I reckon.

Cheers

[Penelope Stopit]

This is all very confusing to me
If you have decided to create a circuit that includes the original key switch, surely the best method is the one that you mentioned earlier, the job only involves extending the wiring from the dashboard switch to the rear switch that you will be fitting
Am I missing something?

[karona]

Penelope Stopit said:

This is all very confusing to me
If you have decided to create a circuit that includes the original key switch, surely the best method is the one that you mentioned earlier, the job only involves extending the wiring from the dashboard switch to the rear switch that you will be fitting
Am I missing something?

The button on the dashboard opens the glass, it has to be pressed by the driver while someone else opens the glass.
The key in tailgate opens the glass, it has to be turned with one hand while the glass is raised by the other.
A new button beside the glass handle means the glass can be opened one-handed.

The feed to the button and key is always on, so the new button would always open the glass, making the car insecure.

The solution is to detect when the central locking is open. There's a two inch long lever in the tailgate lock that moves when the lock is operated, ideal for attaching a microswitch.

This video shows the mechanical bits, and also shows my glass lock is knackered, because it doesn't latch open, the one in the video does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6FCgFkl-3I

Edited by karona on Thursday 11th May 05:50