Discussion
Morning All,
I've searched on here, but cannot find an answer to my problem, as the paint job (screw up?!) is unique to me. Pics below.
My base coat appears to have gone on very flat. The colour looks significantly different to the rest of the car, although the match seems fine as the paint code is correct and I tested it beforehand. The base coat has the texture of newly sprayed primer, or fine sandpaper. It was put on outside yesterday afternoon.
So, I have a few questions...
1. Do I proceed with the job as it is? Will the clear coats sort the issue? Seems unlikely!
2. Do I have to start from scratch? Or can I wet sand what's there with 400-600 or is it a start over job?
It's my first bodywork attempt, so go easy on me!
Cheers,
Joe.
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I've searched on here, but cannot find an answer to my problem, as the paint job (screw up?!) is unique to me. Pics below.
My base coat appears to have gone on very flat. The colour looks significantly different to the rest of the car, although the match seems fine as the paint code is correct and I tested it beforehand. The base coat has the texture of newly sprayed primer, or fine sandpaper. It was put on outside yesterday afternoon.
So, I have a few questions...
1. Do I proceed with the job as it is? Will the clear coats sort the issue? Seems unlikely!
2. Do I have to start from scratch? Or can I wet sand what's there with 400-600 or is it a start over job?
It's my first bodywork attempt, so go easy on me!
Cheers,
Joe.
In 2 coat systems - clear over base - base coats will dry matt. The clearcoat gives the shine.
Are you using waterbase or solvent base coat? If solvent I wonder if you've used too much thinner/too heavy coats & it's partially dissolved the primer.
The alternative could be 'blooming': https://www.carcolourservices.co.uk/blooming/
Or you just haven't applied enough coats to cover the primer - some colours are 'low hiders'.
I would expect the base coat to match the original colour. If it doesn't match then clearcoat isn't going to make a difference.
Just because it's the right colour code doesn't mean it's the right shade of that particular colour. Almost every car colour will have different shades depending which batch of paint was in use when the car was built & checking against the paint supplier's swatches is essential.
As an example, for Ford Frozen White - Transit vans etc - I list in Nexa Aquabase 4 'standard shades'.
Post your color code & I'll see what comes up.
Are you using waterbase or solvent base coat? If solvent I wonder if you've used too much thinner/too heavy coats & it's partially dissolved the primer.
The alternative could be 'blooming': https://www.carcolourservices.co.uk/blooming/
Or you just haven't applied enough coats to cover the primer - some colours are 'low hiders'.
I would expect the base coat to match the original colour. If it doesn't match then clearcoat isn't going to make a difference.
Just because it's the right colour code doesn't mean it's the right shade of that particular colour. Almost every car colour will have different shades depending which batch of paint was in use when the car was built & checking against the paint supplier's swatches is essential.
As an example, for Ford Frozen White - Transit vans etc - I list in Nexa Aquabase 4 'standard shades'.
Post your color code & I'll see what comes up.
Edited by paintman on Friday 27th October 10:42
id have gone 800
i can still see the sharp masking edges ...id suggest you sand it a bit more and feather all the edges
and when you spray it try to make sure its a warm dry day , if possible use a hot air gun or hairdryer to warm the panel first , you can also stand the cans in hot water or near to a rad to help warm them
i can still see the sharp masking edges ...id suggest you sand it a bit more and feather all the edges
and when you spray it try to make sure its a warm dry day , if possible use a hot air gun or hairdryer to warm the panel first , you can also stand the cans in hot water or near to a rad to help warm them
Been out all day so bit late replying but:
I only list two standard shades, so better than many!
The can in your picture is for the colour coat aka 'basecoat'. You've got a solvent base basecoat which will dry matt. The colour is a pearlescent. It will need a clearcoat applied after you've achieved coverage. Again, with the clear follow the instructions.
You'll need several coats to cover the primer. Apply & flash off between coats as per the instructions of the paint until you have achieved coverage - i.e the primer is no longer visible through the colour.
Don't slather it on as the solvent could attack the primer & if too wet the pearlescents in the paint will sink & affect the appearance.
The edge of the primer looks as though you hard masked & consequently have a ridge where the primer meets the old paint. If that is the case then be an idea to flat the edge so it's feathered before carrying on painting.
Preferable not to have a hard tape edge where you want the new paint & then the clear which must extend past the new base coat to finish.
Ideally control the spray to avoid taping the blend areas altogether but this may be problematic with an aerosol.
You could try a piece of rigid card held up from the surface but be careful not to blow it onto the surface.
You can use tape, but use wide tape & peel up the edge at the limit of where you want the paint to go.
ETA. If the primer was flatted smooth then the reason for the first colour coat being like fine sandpaper is that you have applied too little, from too far away, or on too hot a surface so it hasn't flowed out.
I only list two standard shades, so better than many!
The can in your picture is for the colour coat aka 'basecoat'. You've got a solvent base basecoat which will dry matt. The colour is a pearlescent. It will need a clearcoat applied after you've achieved coverage. Again, with the clear follow the instructions.
You'll need several coats to cover the primer. Apply & flash off between coats as per the instructions of the paint until you have achieved coverage - i.e the primer is no longer visible through the colour.
Don't slather it on as the solvent could attack the primer & if too wet the pearlescents in the paint will sink & affect the appearance.
The edge of the primer looks as though you hard masked & consequently have a ridge where the primer meets the old paint. If that is the case then be an idea to flat the edge so it's feathered before carrying on painting.
Preferable not to have a hard tape edge where you want the new paint & then the clear which must extend past the new base coat to finish.
Ideally control the spray to avoid taping the blend areas altogether but this may be problematic with an aerosol.
You could try a piece of rigid card held up from the surface but be careful not to blow it onto the surface.
You can use tape, but use wide tape & peel up the edge at the limit of where you want the paint to go.
ETA. If the primer was flatted smooth then the reason for the first colour coat being like fine sandpaper is that you have applied too little, from too far away, or on too hot a surface so it hasn't flowed out.
Edited by paintman on Friday 27th October 19:18
Thanks for the super detailed advice. It is greatly appreciated.
I'll sand that base coat and feather the edges and have another run at it with some more finesse.
In terms of the colour match, should 2/3 more base coats and clear blend it more to the colour of the rest of the car?
Also, generally speaking, the final base coat should not be sanded. Correct?
I'll sand that base coat and feather the edges and have another run at it with some more finesse.
In terms of the colour match, should 2/3 more base coats and clear blend it more to the colour of the rest of the car?
Also, generally speaking, the final base coat should not be sanded. Correct?
Joeninho said:
In terms of the colour match, should 2/3 more base coats and clear blend it more to the colour of the rest of the car?
Apply as many coats of colour as are required to achieve coverage. If it doesn't look the same colour - albeit matt - as the rest of the panel then clearcoating will not improve it.Clearcoat is exactly that. Anything under it will stay as it is - warts and all. Just gives a shiny surface.
When I clearcoat I apply 2 full wet coats - but that's 2k & applied with a spraygun
Joeninho said:
Also, generally speaking, the final base coat should not be sanded. Correct?
Do NOT sand the base coats as this will damage it which will be visible after the clearcoat is applied. If you DO have to sand the basecoat to remove any defects then you will need to apply further coats of basecoat to cover the sanded area so the whole area of basecoat is of uniform appearance.
I don't sell paint.
Edited by paintman on Friday 27th October 21:05
10/10 for effort but you are in danger of creating a sizeable mess.
Your primer area is far too big, it even extends beyond door shut to the exterior of car.
I'll try and help...
Standard thinners on a rag will dissolve the primer and eventually return it to the exposed metal as per your pre primed area.
You need to assess the repair and work out where you will prime where you will paint and where you will lacquer to. (Ideally you'd have another soft edge or pull that edge further to help blend edges).
Keep paint area as small as possible and within door shut.
Within this area it has to be flatted with paper ideally upto 800 then for where colour and lacquer go 1500 then with rubbing compound for the edges of lacquer.
Mask this area having flatted as above. Soft edge the tape around the edges.
Dust aerosol acid etch just over the metal - just dust it on leaving a semi translucent finish.
Then dust the base coat on just where it needs to cover the primer make sure primer is covered then go for a finish blending out further from the repaired primer area.
Then lacquer the entire masked area three coats, first thin then create finish with next two.
Pull back soft edge tape when lacquer tacky.
Forget about it for two hours let it dry and then flat everything with 1500 2000 then buff up with compound.
Watch a load of YouTube paint repair videos and it will be much easier. But the repair you are doing is not straightforward.
Your primer area is far too big, it even extends beyond door shut to the exterior of car.
I'll try and help...
Standard thinners on a rag will dissolve the primer and eventually return it to the exposed metal as per your pre primed area.
You need to assess the repair and work out where you will prime where you will paint and where you will lacquer to. (Ideally you'd have another soft edge or pull that edge further to help blend edges).
Keep paint area as small as possible and within door shut.
Within this area it has to be flatted with paper ideally upto 800 then for where colour and lacquer go 1500 then with rubbing compound for the edges of lacquer.
Mask this area having flatted as above. Soft edge the tape around the edges.
Dust aerosol acid etch just over the metal - just dust it on leaving a semi translucent finish.
Then dust the base coat on just where it needs to cover the primer make sure primer is covered then go for a finish blending out further from the repaired primer area.
Then lacquer the entire masked area three coats, first thin then create finish with next two.
Pull back soft edge tape when lacquer tacky.
Forget about it for two hours let it dry and then flat everything with 1500 2000 then buff up with compound.
Watch a load of YouTube paint repair videos and it will be much easier. But the repair you are doing is not straightforward.
Regardless of what you say it's not an ideal repair for a novice and you know this all too well.
There will be wax grease in shuts just waiting to react with lacquer coat. He's dealing with corrosion so once again given his tools it's going to be a compromised repair. And then he's got to fade the lacquer out potentially right in your eye line as you enter vehicle. Ok he's using cans but if he was using pray guns there would be loads of masking.
I think you are more annoyed that I've actually given him a basic procedure to actually do the job and a basis to learn from 🙄
A bumper corner or paint a wing is much much easier.
There will be wax grease in shuts just waiting to react with lacquer coat. He's dealing with corrosion so once again given his tools it's going to be a compromised repair. And then he's got to fade the lacquer out potentially right in your eye line as you enter vehicle. Ok he's using cans but if he was using pray guns there would be loads of masking.
I think you are more annoyed that I've actually given him a basic procedure to actually do the job and a basis to learn from 🙄
A bumper corner or paint a wing is much much easier.
Thanks to all for pitching in. Your advice is gratefully received!
If I were to start from scratch by removing with thinner, would it take me back to the start as in the original pic with corrosion removed, or would it also affect the original painted parts that I have now primed over?
I've watched several YouTube vids for advice. I based my repair on a rusted sill repair video from a guy using cans.
Call it naivety, but I actually didn't consider the primed area too carefully, as I thought it would all blend together fairly well. I guess I shouldn't hold my breath on West Coast Customs calling any time soon!
Also, the inside of the door had some corrosion as did the part between the front and back door, so I may have gone a bit gung ho trying to repair it all.
Bizarrely, I'm starting to really enjoy tinkering with the cars so perhaps it's time I invested in a compressor and peripherals to do these jobs properly.
Again, thanks to all for sharing your knowledge and experience.
If I were to start from scratch by removing with thinner, would it take me back to the start as in the original pic with corrosion removed, or would it also affect the original painted parts that I have now primed over?
I've watched several YouTube vids for advice. I based my repair on a rusted sill repair video from a guy using cans.
Call it naivety, but I actually didn't consider the primed area too carefully, as I thought it would all blend together fairly well. I guess I shouldn't hold my breath on West Coast Customs calling any time soon!
Also, the inside of the door had some corrosion as did the part between the front and back door, so I may have gone a bit gung ho trying to repair it all.
Bizarrely, I'm starting to really enjoy tinkering with the cars so perhaps it's time I invested in a compressor and peripherals to do these jobs properly.
Again, thanks to all for sharing your knowledge and experience.
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