Classic Mini sill rust prevention
Discussion
Hi there, hoping you can help me with this. I have a Classic Mini which has been restored in the past but I am having some issues with the paintwork on the sills. Initially I noticed that the paint as cracking and coming off, seeming to not be well adhered.
So, concerned of what may be lurking underneath I set about it with a scraper and in almost no time and with little effort I have the paint completely removed revealing a lovely sold sill underneath
Some thinners removed the remainder of the underseal
So looking at it, it seems that the car has been painted, then undersealed, then painted over the top of the underseal.
So what is my best solution going forward? I would like to once again underseal, then paint over the underseal again, but I am nervous of this issue occurring again.
What is the best prep to do to the current paintwork to make sure the underseal sticks, then are there any recommendations for underseal that is stable for painting over the top of?
Any advise, assistance or recommendations would be gratefully received
So, concerned of what may be lurking underneath I set about it with a scraper and in almost no time and with little effort I have the paint completely removed revealing a lovely sold sill underneath
Some thinners removed the remainder of the underseal
So looking at it, it seems that the car has been painted, then undersealed, then painted over the top of the underseal.
So what is my best solution going forward? I would like to once again underseal, then paint over the underseal again, but I am nervous of this issue occurring again.
What is the best prep to do to the current paintwork to make sure the underseal sticks, then are there any recommendations for underseal that is stable for painting over the top of?
Any advise, assistance or recommendations would be gratefully received
Doesitdrive said:
If you want to paint over something use stonechip, after a good coat of rust converter has gone off properly, and probably strip and do both sills from bare metal.
Do you have any recommendations for a stone chip paint?I'd really rather not take the sills back to metal as they are rust free with a good coating of paint on them.
Is it not advisable to stone chip over paint?
Moopig said:
Doesitdrive said:
If you want to paint over something use stonechip, after a good coat of rust converter has gone off properly, and probably strip and do both sills from bare metal.
Do you have any recommendations for a stone chip paint?I'd really rather not take the sills back to metal as they are rust free with a good coating of paint on them.
Is it not advisable to stone chip over paint?
My thinking is, if the paint has failed in places the rest is likely to.
Water get under underseal , it lifts, water stays there rusting the car. Seen a lot of sills where this happens.
Not starting again you could be repeating the process regularly.
Do it once and do it properly lol.
The only issue has been the outer paint coming off, there does not seem to be any issues with anything getting underneath the underseal and corrosion.
The outer sills and valances (all having this issue) are the only place where the underseal has been painted over.
Does stone chip give a heavily textured finish?
The outer sills and valances (all having this issue) are the only place where the underseal has been painted over.
Does stone chip give a heavily textured finish?
I wouldn't say heavily textured, probably won't notice it anyway.
I personally just like to see it painted, which if done properly is perfectly durable.
You can see what's happening too before it gets too late, a clear coating from the bilt Hamber range can be applied over it, you need UC for this. (Underbody clear)
If existing paint is sound clean it up and just apply the UC.
I personally just like to see it painted, which if done properly is perfectly durable.
You can see what's happening too before it gets too late, a clear coating from the bilt Hamber range can be applied over it, you need UC for this. (Underbody clear)
If existing paint is sound clean it up and just apply the UC.
Edited by Belle427 on Friday 17th July 08:15
Hi, I run a small bodyshop and do a lot of resto work.
It looks like someone has previously tried to protect what look like really good sills and paintwork with some sealer and fresh paint? It looks from the photo like the newly revealed paintwork is a slightly more cream shade? Has it been resprayed and they have added the sealant when that took place, or is the slight colour shade difference down to the photos?
Anyway, it depends what you want, it looks great like it is and if the newly revealed paint isn't damaged then you could leave it as it is.
If you want to add some protection then paint has to either have a chemical or a mechanical key to stick to, by that I mean it has to either be scuffed enough that the new material bonds by gripping in that scuffed surface, or that there is a chemical bonding, such as paint bonding to primer etc. I don't think they have previously done that, hence the adhesion problems you were experiencing.
In your case, you would need to completely scuff up the sill that you want to protect, so you need something like 180 grit or a scotchbrite pad where you can get in there and scuff up every nook and cranny. You are not looking to remove the old paint just be putting scratch marks in it for the stone chip or whatever to bond to.
Once you are happy there is a surface for it to bond to it needs cleaning with panel wipe which is an alcohol cleaner, and you need to make sure all the previously oil based sealant is removed and its completely clean.
Then you can mask it off and either brush on some more sealer or use a stonchip, I personally use Gravitex but they are all very similar. A sealant will remain soft but that elastic surface protects it from road debris etc, a stone chip dries hard and gives more a solid hardened surface to protect it.
You can then paint it to colour match it, but you may want a bodyshop to do that for you.
It depends what you want, well cleaned up and a regular coating of something like Bill Hamber UC or Lanogaurd will protect it from the UK weather. Alternatively, you can do as above and put down a new coat and paint it.
Happy to expand on any of the above once you have an idea of what you want to achieve.
It looks like someone has previously tried to protect what look like really good sills and paintwork with some sealer and fresh paint? It looks from the photo like the newly revealed paintwork is a slightly more cream shade? Has it been resprayed and they have added the sealant when that took place, or is the slight colour shade difference down to the photos?
Anyway, it depends what you want, it looks great like it is and if the newly revealed paint isn't damaged then you could leave it as it is.
If you want to add some protection then paint has to either have a chemical or a mechanical key to stick to, by that I mean it has to either be scuffed enough that the new material bonds by gripping in that scuffed surface, or that there is a chemical bonding, such as paint bonding to primer etc. I don't think they have previously done that, hence the adhesion problems you were experiencing.
In your case, you would need to completely scuff up the sill that you want to protect, so you need something like 180 grit or a scotchbrite pad where you can get in there and scuff up every nook and cranny. You are not looking to remove the old paint just be putting scratch marks in it for the stone chip or whatever to bond to.
Once you are happy there is a surface for it to bond to it needs cleaning with panel wipe which is an alcohol cleaner, and you need to make sure all the previously oil based sealant is removed and its completely clean.
Then you can mask it off and either brush on some more sealer or use a stonchip, I personally use Gravitex but they are all very similar. A sealant will remain soft but that elastic surface protects it from road debris etc, a stone chip dries hard and gives more a solid hardened surface to protect it.
You can then paint it to colour match it, but you may want a bodyshop to do that for you.
It depends what you want, well cleaned up and a regular coating of something like Bill Hamber UC or Lanogaurd will protect it from the UK weather. Alternatively, you can do as above and put down a new coat and paint it.
Happy to expand on any of the above once you have an idea of what you want to achieve.
Bilt Hambers cavity wax aerosols would be part of my preventative work once you've finished the outside, they come with long clog free probes that spray really well, a pleasure to work with.
Not just the sill cavities, use in all voids.
The cans are large and 3 or 4 will treat every cavity incl doors boot bonnet inner wings scuttle etc.
Not just the sill cavities, use in all voids.
The cans are large and 3 or 4 will treat every cavity incl doors boot bonnet inner wings scuttle etc.
DaveF-SkinnysAutos said:
Hi, I run a small bodyshop and do a lot of resto work.
It looks like someone has previously tried to protect what look like really good sills and paintwork with some sealer and fresh paint? It looks from the photo like the newly revealed paintwork is a slightly more cream shade? Has it been resprayed and they have added the sealant when that took place, or is the slight colour shade difference down to the photos?
Anyway, it depends what you want, it looks great like it is and if the newly revealed paint isn't damaged then you could leave it as it is.
If you want to add some protection then paint has to either have a chemical or a mechanical key to stick to, by that I mean it has to either be scuffed enough that the new material bonds by gripping in that scuffed surface, or that there is a chemical bonding, such as paint bonding to primer etc. I don't think they have previously done that, hence the adhesion problems you were experiencing.
In your case, you would need to completely scuff up the sill that you want to protect, so you need something like 180 grit or a scotchbrite pad where you can get in there and scuff up every nook and cranny. You are not looking to remove the old paint just be putting scratch marks in it for the stone chip or whatever to bond to.
Once you are happy there is a surface for it to bond to it needs cleaning with panel wipe which is an alcohol cleaner, and you need to make sure all the previously oil based sealant is removed and its completely clean.
Then you can mask it off and either brush on some more sealer or use a stonchip, I personally use Gravitex but they are all very similar. A sealant will remain soft but that elastic surface protects it from road debris etc, a stone chip dries hard and gives more a solid hardened surface to protect it.
You can then paint it to colour match it, but you may want a bodyshop to do that for you.
It depends what you want, well cleaned up and a regular coating of something like Bill Hamber UC or Lanogaurd will protect it from the UK weather. Alternatively, you can do as above and put down a new coat and paint it.
Happy to expand on any of the above once you have an idea of what you want to achieve.
^^^This, clean it all back so it is perfectly clean and degreased, scuff up, spray with stone chip. Once dry, scuff over once more lightly with a scotch brite pad, then spray body colour. As it's the sills you will likely get away with a good quality colour matched aerosol, as the odd imperfection won't be quite so noticeable. Or, get a body shop to do it, depending how confident you are with an aerosol.It looks like someone has previously tried to protect what look like really good sills and paintwork with some sealer and fresh paint? It looks from the photo like the newly revealed paintwork is a slightly more cream shade? Has it been resprayed and they have added the sealant when that took place, or is the slight colour shade difference down to the photos?
Anyway, it depends what you want, it looks great like it is and if the newly revealed paint isn't damaged then you could leave it as it is.
If you want to add some protection then paint has to either have a chemical or a mechanical key to stick to, by that I mean it has to either be scuffed enough that the new material bonds by gripping in that scuffed surface, or that there is a chemical bonding, such as paint bonding to primer etc. I don't think they have previously done that, hence the adhesion problems you were experiencing.
In your case, you would need to completely scuff up the sill that you want to protect, so you need something like 180 grit or a scotchbrite pad where you can get in there and scuff up every nook and cranny. You are not looking to remove the old paint just be putting scratch marks in it for the stone chip or whatever to bond to.
Once you are happy there is a surface for it to bond to it needs cleaning with panel wipe which is an alcohol cleaner, and you need to make sure all the previously oil based sealant is removed and its completely clean.
Then you can mask it off and either brush on some more sealer or use a stonchip, I personally use Gravitex but they are all very similar. A sealant will remain soft but that elastic surface protects it from road debris etc, a stone chip dries hard and gives more a solid hardened surface to protect it.
You can then paint it to colour match it, but you may want a bodyshop to do that for you.
It depends what you want, well cleaned up and a regular coating of something like Bill Hamber UC or Lanogaurd will protect it from the UK weather. Alternatively, you can do as above and put down a new coat and paint it.
Happy to expand on any of the above once you have an idea of what you want to achieve.
Then spray your cavity wax of preference internally. I wouldn't spray any wax on it externally as it will look crap.
Ritchie335is said:
^^^This, clean it all back so it is perfectly clean and degreased, scuff up, spray with stone chip. Once dry, scuff over once more lightly with a scotch brite pad, then spray body colour. As it's the sills you will likely get away with a good quality colour matched aerosol, as the odd imperfection won't be quite so noticeable. Or, get a body shop to do it, depending how confident you are with an aerosol.
Then spray your cavity wax of preference internally. I wouldn't spray any wax on it externally as it will look crap.
You don't necessarily need to scuff the stone chip before applying the colour coat. You can apply the colour coat within what's called the 'open window', so generally within 24hrs of applying the stonechip, that way you will have chemical bonding to ensure the paint adheres. This is what I was referring to in my post above, its commonly called 'wet on wet'. If you leave it longer than the 'open window' then you would need to scuff it which isn't easy as it's texured and quite a hard finish.Then spray your cavity wax of preference internally. I wouldn't spray any wax on it externally as it will look crap.
DaveF-SkinnysAutos said:
Hi, I run a small bodyshop and do a lot of resto work.
It looks like someone has previously tried to protect what look like really good sills and paintwork with some sealer and fresh paint? It looks from the photo like the newly revealed paintwork is a slightly more cream shade? Has it been resprayed and they have added the sealant when that took place, or is the slight colour shade difference down to the photos?
Anyway, it depends what you want, it looks great like it is and if the newly revealed paint isn't damaged then you could leave it as it is.
If you want to add some protection then paint has to either have a chemical or a mechanical key to stick to, by that I mean it has to either be scuffed enough that the new material bonds by gripping in that scuffed surface, or that there is a chemical bonding, such as paint bonding to primer etc. I don't think they have previously done that, hence the adhesion problems you were experiencing.
In your case, you would need to completely scuff up the sill that you want to protect, so you need something like 180 grit or a scotchbrite pad where you can get in there and scuff up every nook and cranny. You are not looking to remove the old paint just be putting scratch marks in it for the stone chip or whatever to bond to.
Once you are happy there is a surface for it to bond to it needs cleaning with panel wipe which is an alcohol cleaner, and you need to make sure all the previously oil based sealant is removed and its completely clean.
Then you can mask it off and either brush on some more sealer or use a stonchip, I personally use Gravitex but they are all very similar. A sealant will remain soft but that elastic surface protects it from road debris etc, a stone chip dries hard and gives more a solid hardened surface to protect it.
You can then paint it to colour match it, but you may want a bodyshop to do that for you.
It depends what you want, well cleaned up and a regular coating of something like Bill Hamber UC or Lanogaurd will protect it from the UK weather. Alternatively, you can do as above and put down a new coat and paint it.
Happy to expand on any of the above once you have an idea of what you want to achieve.
The is exactly the type of reply I was looking for!!! Huge thanks, will update this thread with how I get onIt looks like someone has previously tried to protect what look like really good sills and paintwork with some sealer and fresh paint? It looks from the photo like the newly revealed paintwork is a slightly more cream shade? Has it been resprayed and they have added the sealant when that took place, or is the slight colour shade difference down to the photos?
Anyway, it depends what you want, it looks great like it is and if the newly revealed paint isn't damaged then you could leave it as it is.
If you want to add some protection then paint has to either have a chemical or a mechanical key to stick to, by that I mean it has to either be scuffed enough that the new material bonds by gripping in that scuffed surface, or that there is a chemical bonding, such as paint bonding to primer etc. I don't think they have previously done that, hence the adhesion problems you were experiencing.
In your case, you would need to completely scuff up the sill that you want to protect, so you need something like 180 grit or a scotchbrite pad where you can get in there and scuff up every nook and cranny. You are not looking to remove the old paint just be putting scratch marks in it for the stone chip or whatever to bond to.
Once you are happy there is a surface for it to bond to it needs cleaning with panel wipe which is an alcohol cleaner, and you need to make sure all the previously oil based sealant is removed and its completely clean.
Then you can mask it off and either brush on some more sealer or use a stonchip, I personally use Gravitex but they are all very similar. A sealant will remain soft but that elastic surface protects it from road debris etc, a stone chip dries hard and gives more a solid hardened surface to protect it.
You can then paint it to colour match it, but you may want a bodyshop to do that for you.
It depends what you want, well cleaned up and a regular coating of something like Bill Hamber UC or Lanogaurd will protect it from the UK weather. Alternatively, you can do as above and put down a new coat and paint it.
Happy to expand on any of the above once you have an idea of what you want to achieve.
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