Wheres the balance? diminishing returns in cleaning

[shouldbworking]

Soon to have my newly restored car back from the paintshop and been thinking of how best to look after the new paint and keep it as nice as possible (whilst being a daily driver).

Presently my typical car cleaning to keep my old sheds presentable consists of weekly (ish)
rinse car down to remove loose muck
wash in clean water with bucket + sponge
wash with combined wash + wax stuff

and maybe monthly ill do use a proper wax.

This has always managed to keep my old cars with paintwork that completely belies their age, but ive not been that fastitidious as they have always had a mark or two where previous owners have been unlucky / less careful than myself.

But now that I will be starting afresh with a mint coat of paint is there anything that will make a significant difference in how it lasts / looks , without going OTT and requiring a full days cleaning? as for how far OTT is, its about the point where itd be referred to as detailing rather than a good clean.

I was thinking a wash mitt would be the most useful change rather than using a sponge

[AndyMI16]

Wash mitt's a very good start and check out some of the guides on detailing world regarding washing and maintenance. Detailing's not just about polishing paint to within an inch (or indeed micron) of its life but about being careful with washing & drying and choosing products which make and keep your car looking its best. I'd start your shopping list as follows.

1. Lambswool miit (sheepskin shop's good for these)
2. Aquatouch drying towel - hoooge microfiber towel which is kinder than a waffle weave
3. Decent shampoo - TBH they're all much the same; Meguiars Gold Glass is a good performer although Shampoo Plus is better VFM
4. Decent wax - too many choices and too big a chance of starting another argument here...!

And enjoy yourself - if you don't have time to clean the car then don't as 9 times out of 10 it'll end of looking worse, trust me.

[Magic919]

In order to minimise marking of the paint have a look at Snow Foam. Often that will be enough to clean it, but can otherwise be used as a pre wash.

[belleair302]

Cleaning a car well is about time, surface preparation and selecting the right products for your paint and budget.

As mentioned above one or two must have's are :

Two buckets with grit guards
A quality wash mitt
a decent shampoo, Chemical Guys Citrus Wssh
A good drying towel, ie Sonus or Poorboys
Some QD Spray to aid drying
A decent polish
A decent sealant
A good wax

Some applicators, microfibres and one or two additional sprays, polishes etc.

All in the above should not come to more than £80-£100 and will make your life moresimple and keep you car / wheels / windows / tyres / exhaust / arches and trim looking great.

Interiors etc are a different matter, ie leather etc but again detailing world is a good source of info as is posting on here. Good luck !!

[PJ S]

Agree with Andy - sheepskin mitt (or as he says miiiiit - s'pose it all depends on your accent), but would add a chenile microfibre mitt (the one that looks like worms) for the wheels.
Wheel (spoke) brush if there is any narrow openings which your fingers and mitt will not be able to get into.
Clay bar - once every 3-6 months depending on where the car is parked, etc should be sufficient. I advocate Bilt Hamber's Auto Clay since it uses water as lubricant and is 200g compared with the 80-100g norm.
Shampoo - just got some of their Auto Wash, and preliminary results are encouraging, used through a Gilmour/Pinnacle Foamaster.
Speaking of which, the Foamaster is a very good tool for washing with, but at £40 odd it's not cheap - but would be a one off purchase anyway.
At this juncture I part company with typical/popular held detailing belief - in theory at least - and don't see the point of the extra effort involved in sealing and waxing. One or other, not both.
Bottom line, ever since coming across the Bilt Hamber site, and reading through it, I'm convinced their Auto Balm will offer more protection than the other wax/sealant products marketed at car care enthusiasts.

There are a couple of products I'm keeping an open mind about, but I'm not completely closed to the fact some currently championed products might last as long as Auto Balm - but not the famed 3-6 months I believed previously, or took as gospel from various threads and the manufacturers' own sites.
How things change in only a few short months!

Edited by PJ S on Friday 21st September 10:28

[AndyMI16]

PJS - it's a sheep thing; get all excited when I think of wool based products.

I'd add to the list a metal free wheel brush but they're currently unavailable seemingly anywhere in the UK or USA. They a godsend but not cheap at all and totally prevent the splatter you usually get with traditional wheel brushes.

I'd second the suggestion that wax AND sealant is OTT/waste of time. There are now some very good sealants available (Jetseal 109 springs to mind) which leave a genuinely good finish and give proper protection; my Vectra's had the above on it for about 3 months now with a very undetailed approach (i.e. when I can be bothered - it's a company car)and it still beads like mad and looks glossy when washed and dried.

I've always said that durability is irrelevant on my other car - it's garaged, does 2k a year max (sadly as it happens - wish I could use it more) and all I want is maximum looks - shallow and sad I know but hey ho.

Edited by AndyMI16 on Friday 21st September 08:55

[grand cherokee]

i would suggest a foam lance in conjunction with a pressure washer as pretty essential

also as i said in another post i now use a Black and Decker leaf blower to remove excess water - basically the less physical contact you have with the paint the better

as a slight aside - you probably remember the Flash car wash system? - now heavily discounted by Poundstretcher etc - don't use it for shampoo etc but the water filter cartridges are very good in that they remove most impurities and as a final rinse mean you can allow the car to try naturally with hardly any water marks!!

finish with quick detailer and the jobs done

[grand cherokee]

just a thought for the OP

if your car has had any respray do NOT use a wax for at least 90 days - use a polish!

the reason? - new paint needs to be able to 'breath' and to release solvents etc before its 'sealed' with a wax

this info was given to me by the guy i use for all paint jobs - he's had years of experience!

[AndyMI16]

That was what I thought but when my car had a front end repair last year I asked the painter this and they said it was fine to do whatever I wanted as it had been baked after painting - I left it to be on the safe side but was intrigued to hear this from a bodyshop.

Second the foam gun suggestion (although I'm not a fan of the Flash system as it didn't work for me - much prefer my Aquagleam despite its considerably higher cost) although I'm loathed to go the leaf blower route although in truth it's fear of being committed more than anything else - mind you, the neighbours have all seen me applying Zymol by hand and waxing parts of the chassis so I guess it wouldn't do much more to change their view of me as a sad/loony/anal sort of chap

[grand cherokee]

AndyMI16 said:

That was what I thought but when my car had a front end repair last year I asked the painter this and they said it was fine to do whatever I wanted as it had been baked after painting - I left it to be on the safe side but was intrigued to hear this from a bodyshop.

Second the foam gun suggestion (although I'm not a fan of the Flash system as it didn't work for me - much prefer my Aquagleam despite its considerably higher cost) although I'm loathed to go the leaf blower route although in truth it's fear of being committed more than anything else - mind you, the neighbours have all seen me applying Zymol by hand and waxing parts of the chassis so I guess it wouldn't do much more to change their view of me as a sad/loony/anal sort of chap

Andy - i know the feeling - being seen with a leaf blower on the car attracts certain comments!!


although the old fart over the road shut up when i suggested he was my first option due to the amount of hot air he produces!!

said old fart nearly blew up the jeeps EMU - stupidly i'd let the battery get flat and was jumping it correctly with ne to bodywork - over he comes and tells me i'm wrong and pulls off the neg lead and puts onto the battery!!

at that point he was about 1/2" away from a 'slap'!!

ref the Flash system - some seem to get good results - others not?

i've just ordered the Peerless dual system but £120+ is a bit of difference to the Flash at about a fiver!


i wonder if the differing results with the Flash system are due to local water conditions?

Edited by grand cherokee on Monday 24th September 13:10

[PJ S]

AndyMI16 said:

That was what I thought but when my car had a front end repair last year I asked the painter this and they said it was fine to do whatever I wanted as it had been baked after painting - I left it to be on the safe side but was intrigued to hear this from a bodyshop.

Second the foam gun suggestion (although I'm not a fan of the Flash system as it didn't work for me - much prefer my Aquagleam despite its considerably higher cost) although I'm loathed to go the leaf blower route although in truth it's fear of being committed more than anything else - mind you, the neighbours have all seen me applying Zymol by hand and waxing parts of the chassis so I guess it wouldn't do much more to change their view of me as a sad/loony/anal sort of chap.

'Ata boy. You're on the road to recovery now.....well, almost.
Funny you should mention Flash - love it. But then to be fair, Belfast water isn't that hard. Even so though, one lazy pre-Flash wash and leave session was enough to show it's not THAT soft!
Have you considered the Peerless filter system? Being rechargeable overnight (or less) with rock salt, means you'll spend less on new cartridges like you do with the Aquagleam.

[AndyMI16]

PJ S said:

'Ata boy. You're on the road to recovery now.....well, almost.
Funny you should mention Flash - love it. But then to be fair, Belfast water isn't that hard. Even so though, one lazy pre-Flash wash and leave session was enough to show it's not THAT soft!
Have you considered the Peerless filter system? Being rechargeable overnight (or less) with rock salt, means you'll spend less on new cartridges like you do with the Aquagleam.

Nope - beyond recovery completely.

I can't get on with Flash but in fairness I have extremely hard water where I am (my boiler and central heating problems lurch from crisis to crisis at present) although the Aquagleam seems to work just fine and still going strong after 12 months plus. I'm looking into Peerless at present although we're also considering a water softener/filtration system for the house to try and combat above mentioned plumbing issues - naturally the water soon to be plumbed into the garage would benefit from this (although that little fact hasn't been made overly clear to my better half - hoping I can sneak it into the final project...)

[PJ S]

I'm sure she'll never notice.
Although in about 8 months time expect to be confronted with "What's these pipes for?", whilst standing in the garage.
Should have a sensible plausible answer between now and then - any earlier though, and you'd better be a quick thinker!

Edited by PJ S on Monday 24th September 23:42

[dilbert]

I personally don't think it's got much to do with the products. People spend fortunes, and I just don't think it's worth it. A reasonable detergent, not washing up liquid, a chamois, and an ordinary polish from hellfrauds.

Little and often, half an hour, twice a week at least. Or, one half hour, and one hour and a half at most. (For a daily driver)

Edited to add, around here (home) people used to think I was nuts and spent too much time washing my car!!! I don't think I could abide spending a whole day just to clean a car.

Edited by dilbert on Tuesday 25th September 03:29

[PJ S]

It's like a lot of things in life dilbert - there are those who become obsessively anal about having their car look like it stepped out of the factory/showroom each day, and there are those who see the vehicle as a means to an end - and nothing more - and it's lucky if it gets a lick and a promise once a month.
And the industry is forever finding new ways (read as more processes) to get that deep wet-look/mirror finish to your paintwork.
I too don't buy into a lot of the extraneous stuff, and certainly not the waxes over and above £20 or so - but hey, to each their own.

[grand cherokee]

PJ S said:

... there are those who become obsessively anal about having their car look like it stepped out of the factory/showroom each day.....

i think you'd agree that any decently detailed car looks far better than a car leaving the showroom?

i've seen brand new Porsche's with swirls etc - in the showroom!! - but when you see the muppets wiping them down with a rag its no surprise

and i agree people do get obsessive - to the point of complaining when it rains???

my Grand gets heavy off road use and comes back covered with mud - but i do like to keep it looking nice - and if you follow a simple cleaning programme top up maintenance is very easy

i certainly don't change wax frequently - tried a couple but in honesty rely on a friendly pro to point me in the right direction - i've settled on Blackfire Wet Diamond Ivory Carnauba Paste Wax - about £53 delivered in the UK (cheaper from USA) but it comes with an applicator pad and high quality microfibre cloth in a case!

its very easy to apply and more importantly causes no problems if it comes into contact with trim/rubber etc

Edited by grand cherokee on Tuesday 25th September 11:20

[grand cherokee]

dilbert said:

People spend fortunes, and I just don't think it's worth it. A reasonable detergent, not washing up liquid, a chamois, and an ordinary polish from ...

you certainly don't want a detergent - that will only strip off wax!!

and a chamois is far more likely to cause swirls etc than a microfibre/waffle weave cloth - plus you can't pat dry with a chamois imo

as regards polishes from Halfords - they do some decent ones but its a question of how long they last - i expect a decent wax to last for a min of 3/4 weeks after using foam at least once a week

and a good quick/speed detailer will bring back/extend the life of a wax

[shouldbworking]

Forgotten id made this thread!

I think that for me the balance is going to be struck with a proper wash mitt, the proper 2 bucket thing a decent polish and regular trips to the jet wash so I can keep the inner arches clean etc.

Its all downhill from here (new paint content)

[grand cherokee]

shouldbworking said:

Forgotten id made this thread!

I think that for me the balance is going to be struck with a proper wash mitt, the proper 2 bucket thing a decent polish and regular trips to the jet wash so I can keep the inner arches clean etc.

Its all downhill from here (new paint content)

forget the jet wash as the shampoo will most likely strip off the wax etc!
just get a cheap pressure washer (and the foam lance if you like)

Edited by grand cherokee on Tuesday 25th September 11:50

[PJ S]

Agreed - £2-3 a touch just to clean arches/wheels, plus you've to go there and come back.
Induction motor (quieter and better lasting) Karcher or whatever PW plus foam lance, and you'll wash the car weekly - guaranteed.
You can charge your neighbours as well for borrowing it or bringing there's over - so it'll pay for itself in no time.
Much better than carting 2 buckets around - only need the one (Orange builder's bucket B&Q 98p) to rinse the mitts in.
Don't advocate waffle weave microfibre towles - at least, not for drying paintwork. Fine on windows, especially if you need to scrub a bit to remove something caked on. Best use a heavyweight fluffy Terry weave (same as your bath/hand towels) microfibre to dry the car off with.
Not bought into the QD spray bit yet, but even so, a couple of microsuede microfibre cloths to clean glass inside and buff wax/sealant when dried.

Nice looking finish on the car there - now to keep it that way!