Sorry To Be A Bit Morbid And Depressing...
Discussion
But both my grandfathers died within five months of eachother recently (Monday just gone being the most recent of recent occaisions)! Both were cremated.
I've just started thinking to myself, that where two men of great character and fortitude - men with names and faces - once occupied a place in this world, there now lies nothing but a pile of ashes, mixed in with the earth.
Having gone for almost 21 years without ever having experienced a family death, this is a new experience to me, but are these normal thoughts to be having? When I think of my grandfathers I'd like to think of the men they once were, but instead I can't help thinking of them as just ashes.
Sorry again if I've depressed anyone with my ponderings!
I've just started thinking to myself, that where two men of great character and fortitude - men with names and faces - once occupied a place in this world, there now lies nothing but a pile of ashes, mixed in with the earth.
Having gone for almost 21 years without ever having experienced a family death, this is a new experience to me, but are these normal thoughts to be having? When I think of my grandfathers I'd like to think of the men they once were, but instead I can't help thinking of them as just ashes.
Sorry again if I've depressed anyone with my ponderings!
No they are very normal things to be thinking.
It is a difficult time and everyone has their own way of getting through it.
Remember your relatives and the good times you had with them and keep remembering how great these people are.
Also for everyone to bear in mind, enjoy and do the most you can in the time you have with family and friends while they are still with you. They will be a long time dead.
A friend of mine here at uni just lost her father. That made us all sit up and think about the value of life and how easily it is taken away.
It is a difficult time and everyone has their own way of getting through it.
Remember your relatives and the good times you had with them and keep remembering how great these people are.
Also for everyone to bear in mind, enjoy and do the most you can in the time you have with family and friends while they are still with you. They will be a long time dead.
A friend of mine here at uni just lost her father. That made us all sit up and think about the value of life and how easily it is taken away.
Remember the good times,remember that the character of your grandparents will live on in your memory, and through you, thier immortality should be assured.
Its quite natural to feel down at this time.
I'm not going to say it gets easier with time, for me it hasn't,just the pain and sense of loss is less corrosive.
Mark
Its quite natural to feel down at this time.
I'm not going to say it gets easier with time, for me it hasn't,just the pain and sense of loss is less corrosive.
Mark
The way I look at it the human body is just a container for the person within, when the body is cremated its not your grandfather who has been cremated, just the body he used to work out of. I saw my grandma after she died and to be honest it didn't seem like her, just the body she used to inhabit.
I don't know if that makes any sense or helps at all, its just the way I look at it.
I don't know if that makes any sense or helps at all, its just the way I look at it.
Many of the factors that effect longeivity are hereditary.
So if these were two ancient old gimmers - count your blessings as you'll more than likely be in for a good innings.
If however they both died prematurely, learn from this - live hard as you may die young.
Howver, always remember though optimists tend to live longer than pessimists - so, chin up and try and abstain from posting any more depressing threads.
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Sunday 13th February 22:59
So if these were two ancient old gimmers - count your blessings as you'll more than likely be in for a good innings.
If however they both died prematurely, learn from this - live hard as you may die young.
Howver, always remember though optimists tend to live longer than pessimists - so, chin up and try and abstain from posting any more depressing threads.
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Sunday 13th February 22:59
One was 87 and the other was 76 and a notoriously heavy drinker, so I might not do too badly.
To be honest, I'm not all that upset - Their passing was, in both cases, a bit of a relief to be quite honest as both my grandfathers were very ill in different ways.
Obviously it's a shame that nobody will ever see them again, but I'm quite an objective thinker most of the time and I accept that death is a neccesary part of the cycle of life, and as such everybody must face it. That's fine by me, but with this being the first time a member of my family has died I can't help but think I should perhaps feel a little more upest than I do!
To be honest, I'm not all that upset - Their passing was, in both cases, a bit of a relief to be quite honest as both my grandfathers were very ill in different ways.
Obviously it's a shame that nobody will ever see them again, but I'm quite an objective thinker most of the time and I accept that death is a neccesary part of the cycle of life, and as such everybody must face it. That's fine by me, but with this being the first time a member of my family has died I can't help but think I should perhaps feel a little more upest than I do!
How you deal with it is how you deal with it. There isn't a blueprint. Strangely, I couldn't watch the curtains close behind the coffin at my Dad's funeral, and yet I don't feel at all close to him if I go to the place where his ashes are scattered. That's not where he is for me.
I can be with my Dad in any one of a thousand ways any day - through music, or the way he taught me to do things, or the way I play with the stitching on the leather steering wheel (absolute carbon copy of what he used to do),or the way I roll my eyes at assholes I meet... That's how it is with your Grandfathers too - they haven't gone, because they live on in all the things they taught you.
Sometimes if I get stressed and spiky, I can almost hear Dad passing a bag of mints to me and saying 'extra strong?', then I smile and cool it a bit.
When you've loved someone, they don't leave you; you get to keep the best bits
I can be with my Dad in any one of a thousand ways any day - through music, or the way he taught me to do things, or the way I play with the stitching on the leather steering wheel (absolute carbon copy of what he used to do),or the way I roll my eyes at assholes I meet... That's how it is with your Grandfathers too - they haven't gone, because they live on in all the things they taught you.
Sometimes if I get stressed and spiky, I can almost hear Dad passing a bag of mints to me and saying 'extra strong?', then I smile and cool it a bit.
When you've loved someone, they don't leave you; you get to keep the best bits
DanBoy said:
One was 87 and the other was 76 and a notoriously heavy drinker, so I might not do too badly.
To be honest, I'm not all that upset - Their passing was, in both cases, a bit of a relief to be quite honest as both my grandfathers were very ill in different ways.
Obviously it's a shame that nobody will ever see them again, but I'm quite an objective thinker most of the time and I accept that death is a neccesary part of the cycle of life, and as such everybody must face it. That's fine by me, but with this being the first time a member of my family has died I can't help but think I should perhaps feel a little more upest than I do!
Top Man - that's the spirit!
Now, tell us about your inheritance. Will you be needing any car buying tips?
DanBoy said:
But both my grandfathers died within five months of eachother recently (Monday just gone being the most recent of recent occaisions)! Both were cremated.
I've just started thinking to myself, that where two men of great character and fortitude - men with names and faces - once occupied a place in this world, there now lies nothing but a pile of ashes, mixed in with the earth.
Having gone for almost 21 years without ever having experienced a family death, this is a new experience to me, but are these normal thoughts to be having? When I think of my grandfathers I'd like to think of the men they once were, but instead I can't help thinking of them as just ashes.
Sorry again if I've depressed anyone with my ponderings!
Dan, if it's any help to you think on this.
I have spent over thirty years studying ancient religions and cultures, and if there is one thing I am totally convinced of, it is the existence of the human soul, or spirit, or essence; call it what you like.
I don't make this claim lightly, nor do I make it from some sort of act of blind faith that is a result of indoctrination into a mindless religious body.
It is the kind of certainty that slowly but surely develops from years of study, travel and experience, and a considerable degree of scientific application.
Either you believe that literally in the blink of an eye, the multiple facets that combine to make up an intelligent individual are wiped out at the point of death, or they have a power that transcends the physical and survives.
If you believe in, or are at least open to the possibility of, the existence of the soul, then your grandfathers deaths and subsequent cremations simply become another part of the cycle of human continuance.
Listen to the lyrics in the song by Mike and the Mechanics, "In the Living Years".
I've given the matter some thought, memories always live on so you have to influence some people. It's one reason why I pay particular attention to what old people have to say, experienced and that I may be a part of their legacy.
It's the way I would like to be remembered. Bearing in mind that most of your atoms have been a part of dinosaurs, monkeys, stars and flora since the big bang. I console myself with the thought that my atoms are immortal and that I am a mere resonance, an aggregation of particles which is ever changing. You have few of the atoms you were born with. It is 100% in your mind and how your thoughts influence subsequent generations. It's the extension of a fundamental desire to proliferate your genetic material, if you do so with your thoughts, it seems more valid in the context in which we live. A part of being sentient. The same corrupt desire which is driving Tony Blairs obsession to be "The Prime Minister who made a lot of changes" Immortality through history. I'd shoot the bastard now
It's the way I would like to be remembered. Bearing in mind that most of your atoms have been a part of dinosaurs, monkeys, stars and flora since the big bang. I console myself with the thought that my atoms are immortal and that I am a mere resonance, an aggregation of particles which is ever changing. You have few of the atoms you were born with. It is 100% in your mind and how your thoughts influence subsequent generations. It's the extension of a fundamental desire to proliferate your genetic material, if you do so with your thoughts, it seems more valid in the context in which we live. A part of being sentient. The same corrupt desire which is driving Tony Blairs obsession to be "The Prime Minister who made a lot of changes" Immortality through history. I'd shoot the bastard now
IOLAIRE said:
Listen to the lyrics in the song by Mike and the Mechanics, "In the Living Years".
That'll be the right cheery song that goes
Every generation
Blames the one before
And all of their frustrations
Come beating on your door
I know that I'm a prisoner
To all my Father held so dear
I know that I'm a hostage
To all his hopes and fears
I just wish I could have told him in the living years
Crumpled bits of paper
Filled with imperfect thought
Stilted conversations
I'm afraid that's all we've got
You say you just don't see it
He says it's perfect sense
You just can't get agreement
In this present tense
We all talk a different language
Talking in defense
Say it loud, say it clear
You can listen as well as you hear
It's too late when we die
To admit we don't see eye to eye
So we open up a quarrel
Between the present and the past
We only sacrifice the future
It's the bitterness that lasts
So Don't yield to the fortunes
You sometimes see as fate
It may have a new perspective
On a different date
And if you don't give up, and don't give in
You may just be O.K.
Say it loud, say it clear
You can listen as well as you hear
It's too late when we die
To admit we don't see eye to eye
I wasn't there that morning
When my Father passed away
I didn't get to tell him
All the things I had to say
I think I caught his spirit
Later that same year
I'm sure I heard his echo
In my baby's new born tears
I just wish I could have told him in the living years
Say it loud, say it clear
You can listen as well as you hear
It's too late when we die
To admit we don't see eye to eye
Just the sort of thing to dwell on if your pissed and maudlin', but it's hardly likely to cheer up our recently bereaved young poster now is it?
He doesn't need that, what he really needs is a very attractive and previously unobtainable young woman, to counsel him in his grief, take pity on him and let him have a 'sympathy shag' to make him feel better.
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Monday 14th February 00:12
IOLAIRE said:
and if there is one thing I am totally convinced of, it is the existence of the human soul, or spirit, or essence; call it what you like.
I don't make this claim lightly, nor do I make it from some sort of act of blind faith that is a result of indoctrination into a mindless religious body.
It is the kind of certainty that slowly but surely develops from years of study, travel and experience, and a considerable degree of scientific application.
Either you believe that literally in the blink of an eye, the multiple facets that combine to make up an intelligent individual are wiped out at the point of death, or they have a power that transcends the physical and survives.
If you believe in, or are at least open to the possibility of, the existence of the soul, then your grandfathers deaths and subsequent cremations simply become another part of the cycle of human continuance.
That's quite interesting. I've little time for the preaching of God-Botherers (though I've met some who are very, very decent people, and others that aren't...) but I find it difficult to comprehend how the uniqueness of an individual can simply be snuffed out and so tend towards what new-agers would call 'spiritual' rather than religious. Yet as an engineer by training and attitude, find it difficult to accept that which I cannot measure.
Have you any resources that you could point interested peeps towards? Perhaps best suited to a different thread.
IOLAIRE said:
Listen to the lyrics in the song by Mike and the Mechanics, "In the Living Years".
Nah... never been able to listen to that track. To the extent of turning the radio off if it comes on.
I don't know, something about it just resonates with me. perhaps coz I'm very close to my Dad. Who coincidentally is currently in a hospital bed and has been for a few weeks. Dammit - why do they have to get old?
How has that guy that spent endless hours teaching the young PBF the finer points of clutch control and appreciation of things that go Bruuuummmm ended up not sure if he's going to be able to drive again...
Ach. Sorry guys, too much cheap Scotch tonight obviously...
>> Edited by Pot Bellied Fool on Monday 14th February 00:35
DanBoy said:
... but with this being the first time a member of my family has died I can't help but think I should perhaps feel a little more upest than I do!
I lost both my nan and grandad last month - grandad died first at 99.5 years old beginning of january. Nan (94) became very ill with the shock and died just over 3 weeks later. At both funerals I felt emotionally detached...the only slight emotional moment, in both cases, was as I followed the coffin from the church to the hearse ...and then emotionally detatched again as we went onwards to the crematorium.
I, too, thought I should have been more upset - but they both lived very long and happy lives - 73 years of marriage...and had children, grand children and great grand children.
I'm a firm believer in reincarnation - and think I've already seen them in their new form. It's the end of an era...and the next to go will be my parents and their siblings....and after them, us.
It's as it should be
The most useful thing anyone said to me, was a friend after the death of my father;
"Your Dad's still alive, he's just not using his body any more."
If you think about it, this works on a few levels - from the "He's in heaven", right through to just the fact I think about him every day, 11 years on, so he's "alive" in my head...
"Your Dad's still alive, he's just not using his body any more."
If you think about it, this works on a few levels - from the "He's in heaven", right through to just the fact I think about him every day, 11 years on, so he's "alive" in my head...
Well, Recently, I've started to get interested in our family history, part of getting old myself I think. I'd love to know where we came from and what we where. My fathers side is from Scotland, although I've not found out where yet, even though I've gone back to 1829. They worked on canals and then became railway people in the start of the Industial Revolution.
It's a great journey, it takes you through the generations and makes you realise just what life was like for them in their time. Sad? Yes, it is, but life in the end is. Fascinating too though! I've discovered much about history that school never taught me. All we ever learned was: who was King or Queen, and when!
If it takes your fancy, try it. What you find out you can hand on the knowledge to your kids, there are plenty of sites on the web.
Above all, don't get too depreesed about it, it's life, plain and simple. Remember "Spike" Milligan, whose headstone reads: "I told you it was serious!"
It's a great journey, it takes you through the generations and makes you realise just what life was like for them in their time. Sad? Yes, it is, but life in the end is. Fascinating too though! I've discovered much about history that school never taught me. All we ever learned was: who was King or Queen, and when!
If it takes your fancy, try it. What you find out you can hand on the knowledge to your kids, there are plenty of sites on the web.
Above all, don't get too depreesed about it, it's life, plain and simple. Remember "Spike" Milligan, whose headstone reads: "I told you it was serious!"
8Pack said:
Well, Recently, I've started to get interested in our family history, part of getting old myself I think. I'd love to know where we came from and what we where. My fathers side is from Scotland, although I've not found out where yet, even though I've gone back to 1829. They worked on canals and then became railway people in the start of the Industial Revolution.
It's a great journey, it takes you through the generations and makes you realise just what life was like for them in their time. Sad? Yes, it is, but life in the end is. Fascinating too though! I've discovered much about history that school never taught me. All we ever learned was: who was King or Queen, and when!
If it takes your fancy, try it. What you find out you can hand on the knowledge to your kids, there are plenty of sites on the web.
Above all, don't get too depreesed about it, it's life, plain and simple. Remember "Spike" Milligan, whose headstone reads: "I told you it was serious!"
If you want to mail me some details like surnames and regional details I see if I can help up here, 8 pack.
Scottish history is truly fascinating.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff