all you property tycoons ?

[jackal]

so what's the smart move at the moment

I have one BTL already but would like to do more

maybe another BTL with a weeny mortgage ?
maybe a large student let house for maximum income
or maybe a couple of cheap flats to sit on for 5 years or so but I have no idea what's cheap... everything in my area is expensive as it always was.
Maybe its best to sit it out for another 1,2,3 years and wait for rock bottom ?

Edited by jackal on Thursday 22 January 09:51

[MikeyT]

How much is 'a pile of cash'?

[Jasandjules]

MikeyT said:

How much is 'a pile of cash'?

I've got about 25 quid in 1 and 2p coins. I am pretty sure that would make a pile....

[jackal]

anyone ?

[Melman Giraffe]

jackal said:

so what's the smart move at the moment

I have one BTL already but would like to do more

maybe another BTL with a weeny mortgage ?
maybe a large student let house for maximum income
or maybe a couple of cheap flats to sit on for 5 years or so but I have no idea what's cheap... everything in my area is expensive as it always was.
Maybe its best to sit it out for another 1,2,3 years and wait for rock bottom ?

Edited by jackal on Thursday 22 January 09:51

Do you own a chrystal ball? If so give it a rub!!!

[scotal]

jackal said:

so what's the smart move at the moment

I have one BTL already but would like to do more

maybe another BTL with a weeny mortgage ?
maybe a large student let house for maximum income
or maybe a couple of cheap flats to sit on for 5 years or so but I have no idea what's cheap... everything in my area is expensive as it always was.
Maybe its best to sit it out for another 1,2,3 years and wait for rock bottom ?

Are you looking for growth or income? (Or both?)
If you do a multilet have you considered how far you go before you hit the HMO rules.
Do you live in a student area?
Do you want to stay local (where nothing's cheap) or go a bit further afield?
Are you going to manage them yourself or pay soemone to do it?
Do you want to buy one place cash or several with leverage?
Can I have a go in your 968CS?



You really need to do homeowrk on prices and lending at the moment.
The chances that prices will fall before they rise is pretty high, so you are going to be bargain hunting, however you also need to consider borrowing rates and LTV's before you consider whether now is the time to buy.

[NoelWatson]

jackal said:

so what's the smart move at the moment

I have one BTL already but would like to do more

maybe another BTL with a weeny mortgage ?
maybe a large student let house for maximum income
or maybe a couple of cheap flats to sit on for 5 years or so but I have no idea what's cheap... everything in my area is expensive as it always was.
Maybe its best to sit it out for another 1,2,3 years and wait for rock bottom ?

Edited by jackal on Thursday 22 January 09:51

I hear Bovey has some on his hands so it may be worth asking him

[Gonad]

We still have plenty of clients taking advantage of the deals that are around at present and there is a lot of serious foriegn money buying in central London. I am personaly starting to buy again with high yeilding stuff as well.

[jackal]

scotal said:

jackal said:

so what's the smart move at the moment

I have one BTL already but would like to do more

maybe another BTL with a weeny mortgage ?
maybe a large student let house for maximum income
or maybe a couple of cheap flats to sit on for 5 years or so but I have no idea what's cheap... everything in my area is expensive as it always was.
Maybe its best to sit it out for another 1,2,3 years and wait for rock bottom ?

Are you looking for growth or income? (Or both?)
If you do a multilet have you considered how far you go before you hit the HMO rules.
Do you live in a student area?
Do you want to stay local (where nothing's cheap) or go a bit further afield?
Are you going to manage them yourself or pay soemone to do it?
Do you want to buy one place cash or several with leverage?
Can I have a go in your 968CS?



You really need to do homeowrk on prices and lending at the moment.
The chances that prices will fall before they rise is pretty high, so you are going to be bargain hunting, however you also need to consider borrowing rates and LTV's before you consider whether now is the time to buy.

more income, although some growth thrown in woudl be nice !

no... only skimmed the info on HMO (it seems pretty complex)

no.. but there is a solid student area nearby in egham. 4 or 5 or 6 bed houses 220-300k and falling. Will rent for 350 per student so a sizeable monthly total

don't mind home counties or central london if it means more potential for growth

will prolly get management help with students... otherwise, myself

not sure, open to either option

yes, of course you can as long as you have something interesting I can drive as well ;-)

[JRM]

I'm still too relieved that I got out of BTL a couple of years ago to even think about going back in

[scotal]

JRM said:

I'm still too relieved that I got out of BTL a couple of years ago to even think about going back in

Lots of people feel the same.

However we are seeing increasing numbers of professional investors back and looking. All looking for bargains, distressed sellers etc, but they are still llooking.

[Horse_Apple]

jackal said:

so what's the smart move at the moment

I have one BTL already but would like to do more

maybe another BTL with a weeny mortgage ?
maybe a large student let house for maximum income
or maybe a couple of cheap flats to sit on for 5 years or so but I have no idea what's cheap... everything in my area is expensive as it always was.
Maybe its best to sit it out for another 1,2,3 years and wait for rock bottom ?

Edited by jackal on Thursday 22 January 09:51

At the moment, it is all about yield once you have considered the general risk factors.

Capital growth isn't going to happen for really quite some time and so the investment on property is back to the good old basics of ensuring that the yield returns a monthly profit based on repayment of debt, not just servicing, and giving you an wholly owned asset within a suitable timescale.

We're beginning to look at short dated lease properties again which I think will soon begin to look favourable after 12 years of waiting. The other view we have is based around modern inner city developments up North where we feel that there is a strong likelyhood of the block falling into complete assured tennancies. Again, if the right price is secured the yields are beginning to look favourable.

[NoelWatson]

Horse_Apple said:

jackal said:

so what's the smart move at the moment

I have one BTL already but would like to do more

maybe another BTL with a weeny mortgage ?
maybe a large student let house for maximum income
or maybe a couple of cheap flats to sit on for 5 years or so but I have no idea what's cheap... everything in my area is expensive as it always was.
Maybe its best to sit it out for another 1,2,3 years and wait for rock bottom ?

Edited by jackal on Thursday 22 January 09:51

At the moment, it is all about yield once you have considered the general risk factors.

Capital growth isn't going to happen for really quite some time and so the investment on property is back to the good old basics of ensuring that the yield returns a monthly profit based on repayment of debt, not just servicing, and giving you an wholly owned asset within a suitable timescale.

We're beginning to look at short dated lease properties again which I think will soon begin to look favourable after 12 years of waiting. The other view we have is based around modern inner city developments up North where we feel that there is a strong likelyhood of the block falling into complete assured tennancies. Again, if the right price is secured the yields are beginning to look favourable.

What net yield are you looking at?

[MrV]

jackal said:

scotal said:

jackal said:

so what's the smart move at the moment

I have one BTL already but would like to do more

maybe another BTL with a weeny mortgage ?
maybe a large student let house for maximum income
or maybe a couple of cheap flats to sit on for 5 years or so but I have no idea what's cheap... everything in my area is expensive as it always was.
Maybe its best to sit it out for another 1,2,3 years and wait for rock bottom ?

Are you looking for growth or income? (Or both?)
If you do a multilet have you considered how far you go before you hit the HMO rules.
Do you live in a student area?
Do you want to stay local (where nothing's cheap) or go a bit further afield?
Are you going to manage them yourself or pay soemone to do it?
Do you want to buy one place cash or several with leverage?
Can I have a go in your 968CS?



You really need to do homeowrk on prices and lending at the moment.
The chances that prices will fall before they rise is pretty high, so you are going to be bargain hunting, however you also need to consider borrowing rates and LTV's before you consider whether now is the time to buy.

no.. but there is a solid student area nearby in egham. 4 or 5 or 6 bed houses 220-300k and falling. Will rent for 350 per student so a sizeable monthly total

If you are looking to go that route there are always ex council house's that will have been geared up for student rental in Englefield Green,I am not sure if Holloway are building more on site accommodation though so you would want to check before you sunk any cash into them.

If you are looking into renting to students Reading used to offer a good return ,not sure what it is like now though.

[cinque]

I've got a few and would consider adding to them, but defo not within the next 6 months.

I feel the impact of Chrimbo spending, bills coming in etc is only just starting to really hit and the next 6 months is a time to reflect on the figures coming out. I guess this could be argued as a good bargaining point for buying properties at knock-down prices but risk reward seems a little stacked on the risk side.

[Horse_Apple]

NoelWatson said:

Horse_Apple said:

jackal said:

so what's the smart move at the moment

I have one BTL already but would like to do more

maybe another BTL with a weeny mortgage ?
maybe a large student let house for maximum income
or maybe a couple of cheap flats to sit on for 5 years or so but I have no idea what's cheap... everything in my area is expensive as it always was.
Maybe its best to sit it out for another 1,2,3 years and wait for rock bottom ?

Edited by jackal on Thursday 22 January 09:51

At the moment, it is all about yield once you have considered the general risk factors.

Capital growth isn't going to happen for really quite some time and so the investment on property is back to the good old basics of ensuring that the yield returns a monthly profit based on repayment of debt, not just servicing, and giving you an wholly owned asset within a suitable timescale.

We're beginning to look at short dated lease properties again which I think will soon begin to look favourable after 12 years of waiting. The other view we have is based around modern inner city developments up North where we feel that there is a strong likelyhood of the block falling into complete assured tennancies. Again, if the right price is secured the yields are beginning to look favourable.

What net yield are you looking at?

We are currently seeing single digit, but to be honest money is only going to go into this market if we see clear double digits.

In the early years of the 90's we were able to get 20+% on short dated leases over tired shops in dying highstreets. Those were run for 10 years before being dropped in auction without much of a capital loss!!!!!! write downs to zero had been assumed on these.

My thinking is that a lot of people bought leases with just 60 odd years left to run and won't be able to afford to extend them. Banks will almost certainly not lend to private buyers on a lease with less than 75 to run.

At around the same time we acquired some ex local authority rubbish in Chelsea (near enough to use the name ). The thinking is that we may be able to replicate that particular model with 2 bed new build flats in places like Bradford.

The general thinking is that rubbish is likely to be lower risk (regards rental defaults due to LA underwriting and also diversification) than prime.

15 years ago it was amazing how many people were willing to share a front door and I suspect we are heading back in that direction, although it might not happen this year.

[Wings]

jackal said:

so what's the smart move at the moment

I have one BTL already but would like to do more

maybe another BTL with a weeny mortgage ?
maybe a large student let house for maximum income
or maybe a couple of cheap flats to sit on for 5 years or so but I have no idea what's cheap... everything in my area is expensive as it always was.
Maybe its best to sit it out for another 1,2,3 years and wait for rock bottom ?

Edited by jackal on Thursday 22 January 09:51

I have 15 BTLs, mostly bought at auction some 12 years ago, when you could buy a 2 bed for £30k. The past 2 years I have had more problems with tenants, having one property completely trashed. In the next week I have to serve Notice on a top floor flat, in a 2 floor complex. I can't let the bottom flat because I expect the top floor flat, when he receives Notice, will trash the property.

With my 3 children not wanting to manage the properties, I am seriously looking to off load 3-4 of the low market properties.

In Bristol there are loads of bedsit type student properties standing empty, and since students can be hard work I would not buy that type of property.

Allsops have their London property auction coming up in March, online from February, well worth a look.

[Trommel]

Gonad said:

high yeilding stuff

What do you consider to be a high yield? More than a deposit account pays at the moment, or 10+%?

[JRM]

scotal said:

JRM said:

I'm still too relieved that I got out of BTL a couple of years ago to even think about going back in

Lots of people feel the same.

However we are seeing increasing numbers of professional investors back and looking. All looking for bargains, distressed sellers etc, but they are still llooking.

I'm sure there must be, but that's the difference between the pros and amateurs. The pros would have got in early presumably and also know what can produce the decent yields. There was a phase when anyone could make money out of it (even me), but those silly days have definitely passed now

[Wings]

JRM said:

scotal said:

JRM said:

I'm still too relieved that I got out of BTL a couple of years ago to even think about going back in

Lots of people feel the same.

However we are seeing increasing numbers of professional investors back and looking. All looking for bargains, distressed sellers etc, but they are still llooking.

I'm sure there must be, but that's the difference between the pros and amateurs. The pros would have got in early presumably and also know what can produce the decent yields. There was a phase when anyone could make money out of it (even me), but those silly days have definitely passed now

I still think it is too early to buy, but there again I saw at auction in December, a 2 year old 3 bed terrace house with garage, sold 2 years ago £199k, several with agents at £176k, went at auction £120k.